[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign Today we're doing a kind of a next step episode. After Daniel and I spoke about emotions previously, we're doing an episode on what's called primary and secondary emotions and digging in a little bit more related to why emotions exist, but some of those kind of more hairy layers or complications that happen regarding accessing emotions and processing emotions properly.
Before we do that, I've got two things we need to do. One is I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land in which we meet today. And today we're recording this episode on the lands of the Kulin Nation. And I'd like to pay my respects to elders past, present and emerging.
The other thing I'd like to do is wanted to quickly recommend a podcast I think everyone will love and is would be interested in. At Safe Place we do a lot related to emotions and digging into that. And if you're enjoying this podcast, please check out Talking to Teens. So this has got expert advice for navigating the complicated world of teenage mental health. They explore issues like perfectionism and self hate through conversations with specialists who offer practical communication strategies for parents. And that's what I love about podcasting. And I think the general need out there in the counseling space or mental health space is actually giving listeners and clients tools that they can walk away and try.
It's like getting another perspective on many of the topics we discuss here, but focus more specifically around teens. If you have a teenager that you're working with, you can find
[email protected] and really think that you'll get a lot out of it if that's something that you want to delve more into, you know, quite a specific way. But here we are, we're going to jump into our episode related to primary and secondary motions. My name is Stuart Cheverton and I'm a mental health social worker and one of the owners of Safeplace Therapy. And today We've got Daniel DiPietro back. Welcome, Daniel.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: Thank you, Stu. Glad to be back.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: Yeah, that was a bit of a mouth jumble I was just saying there. But another thing I, I don't think I've shared with you yet. I'm not sure but we, we've done a few episodes now and, and wanted you to know that your sex is kind of one of the top viewed. So that's.
[00:02:41] Speaker B: Oh wow. Amazing. That's great. It's great that everyone feels like that they can attune to that and, and I guess find that interesting facts around that.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And sex sells, right?
I just wanted to throw that out to you. And yeah, if you haven't listened to the sexology episode or any of the episodes, please jump on, feel free, and maybe just scroll through and see some. Maybe one or two that you might enjoy and, and, and give it a us out.
We're planning on throwing out an episode each week on many different topics, but if there's a topic that you want us to cover, please comment. Like this episode, if you like this information.
But we're really kind of putting ourselves out there to talk about issues, give advice and tools, and encouraging people to start talking more about mental health. So, yeah, let's jump in. So maybe if you talk a bit of a recap about why emotions exist. And my, my little thing that I bring up with clients is you're in a jungle. Big scary monster comes out of the jungle and adrenaline rushes through your body. That's called fear, right?
Yes. Something big and scary coming to chase me. So either I adrenaline rushes through my body and I run and hide, you know, to kind of run from that danger, or I beat monster up because, you know, also fear is running through my, my body or I might even shut down sometimes. And there's a few different other ways that fear happens or does to us internally. And then we're pushed towards an action or an action tendency.
Let's think of a different example. I'm at a supermarket and someone, I don't know, steals something from my trolley. I run and chase them because that's my thing. I just bought it. Right. So I'm angry. There's something. Yeah. Fueling me to do that. So a shitty thing happens in life or a good thing.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: We have a reaction. Our body bubbles up with this energy that, you know, stirs us up, and then that pushes us towards an action or it pushes us towards communicating an issue or something. And then if all that works out, if we kind of follow that loop through, hopefully we survive. Yes, hopefully we've communicated our needs and we also feel connected because someone's hurt us. Us reprocessed our emotions and sat with that experience. Yeah.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: Yes. And I think you've just given a beautiful kind of take on emotions. And from an evolutionary perspective, they're a means of survival. Right. You know, things like feeling shame, and shame kind of gets a bad rap. But shame has also been adaptive from a evolutionary perspective. It makes us come back into the fold if we sit with that in an adaptive way. And emotions typically serve an adaptive purpose. Right. And as you said, it makes us access action Tendency here. So we do something that helps us survive and thrive in our worlds and in our interpersonal relationships.
[00:06:01] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. So I guess the real struggle that people then come to is, you know, obviously we're not in caveman any. Any anymore. Maybe there's not a big scary monster in front of me, but yeah, there's fear that bubbles up, or maybe my anger is really big, and maybe it's not matching the thing that's happening in front of me.
[00:06:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:26] Speaker A: And that whole thing. What do you say to that?
[00:06:28] Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, we. Things have may have changed from, I guess, big scary dinosaurs or back in the caveman day, but people experience, I guess, big scary things on a. On a daily here for their own interpersonal worlds. And for them, you know, sometimes they could have an initial reaction to something, and it may be something that may feel quite overwhelming, and that is a. What we call a primary emotion. So it's the first emotion that you kind of notice. Right. That emerges for you. And then what can tend to happen for some people is that if that emotion feels like it, it is quite raw, or it is overwhelming, or it's perhaps has a familiar flavor to it, we can then mask it with something, what's called a secondary emotion, and it obscures the experience of which we've had of the first emot. So it's an emotion on an emotion.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: Maybe it would be worth pausing there for a sec and dig into some maybe examples we might see straight off where our theory is. Hey, maybe this might be going on. Right. So there's lots of oodles of information of people googling anger management. Right. I'm angry, or my. My partner's angry, or they always blow up, or that presentation as soon as they come into the room is what is going on there? Can you give me a few examples of why you get angry or what that anger kind of looks like as it starts to blow up? Usually clients might say something like, I go 0 to 10, and there's no in between.
But usually the first kind of pulling that apart and understanding if it is a secondary emotion problem layering.
Usually what we do there is we ask people what their relationship is like with anger.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And that gives us a bit of a historical context for it. So. And I'm glad you really n this year, because I do this in my work as well. I ask the questions of how was this kind of held? So, you know, how did caregivers respond to anger and how was this actually perceived? So how did I perceive anger from my caregivers Right. And that. That give such rich information in terms of what that person's relationship with anger may be and perhaps how it may be influencing their reactions within their relationship or how they respond to their partner's anger.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Often when I. When I first started learning about layers of emotions, or layer one and layer two, or primary and secondary is. It makes no sense. Why is it secondary? When it's. When it's. When it's the first thing that comes to me. Right. Why? Why is. And. And the simple way that I've kind of explained it to myself and to clients is primary emotion is the actual closest thing that's going on internally.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: That is the closest thing to me. The secondary thing is usually the thing that's happening out there. Right. That people see that other people might have problems with that. You know, people can go, aha, you're an angry person. Right? That's. That's your. That's your emotion.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, secondary emotions can act as a bit of a protective barrier, not just for our internal world, but for our external ones as well. Yeah, yeah. And I. I tend to reflect as well on sexual stereotypes. So, for instance, typically with men, there's a lot of discomfort sitting with perhaps primary fear or primary shame. And so what would be. Would perhaps cover that from the discomfort would be something like anger. And that's quite typically seen in sexual stereotypes. And for women in sexual stereotypes, there you may see them crying as they're kind of expressing anger. And that's because perhaps of the socialization as to anger being perceived as negative or a negative trait for a woman to show. Yeah, right. But really, anger is that primary emotion there. But perhaps the secondary is this feeling of shame around what may be coming up.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, we just have to go back a generation or even our childhood maybe where there's this, you know, boys don't cry, or. Yes, you know, stop crying. What are you whinging about like, you know, be a tough boy. Grow, you know, be big. Right. You know, not to throw my mum under the bus here for a second, but she used to say, you know, it's time for. Time for you to go and, like, go out and go camping. And Stu. I'm like, well, no, that's not me. Why are you throwing that out to me? Why. Why is that something you think important to me? Even though I have a penis, even though I identify as being male? And that's this bigger tapestry, this bigger picture here of expectations on gender and how that plays out, but all of us generally about emotions, right?
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Yes. I'm really glad you named that as well. It's this sense of, of talking more about emotions. And I guess our parents or their parents before them, emotions wasn't really something that was talked about. And cognitive behavioral therapy has been quite predominant in the mental health field. So it's almost like emotions are kind of the secondary weather thing that happens. Whereas now research that has come out, particularly with pioneers such as, you know, Leslie Greenberg and Robert Elliot, you know, that's showing that it's actually a real kind of primary thing that we're needing to tend to is our emotions. It serves a real evolutionary adaptive process so that we could function within society, that we could actually be regulated.
[00:12:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And yeah, I think that there can be this real clash. You know, I'm going to go into cyc land a little bit here in terms of psychology and different theories for a second. Just hold on to me. If you fast forward this if you don't want to listen. But, but there is a real clash between cognitive behavior therapy or act so acceptance, commit therapy about their view of emotions just being a thing. We push through or we ride the wave and then it eventually settles. But we shouldn't actually put much weight to it. We shouldn't put much value to it. On the other end of the spectrum, we've got people like ourselves, emotion focused therapy or people that, that might do more kind of psychotherapy somatic type work in the counseling area, really believe or really push the idea that emotions are important. We just need a better relationship with them. We just need to tune in better. We just need to build that bridge of not pushing everything away and understand the why.
[00:13:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:43] Speaker A: And Mel Robbins, if you're listening, you need that let them theory. I actually want to do a dedicated episode on some of the issues that simp psychological fads, ignore or. Or oversimplify. That actually doesn't help lots of different people with trauma, layers of emotions or intensity of emotion. You can't just unhook yourself from an intense thing. You can't just kind of back away and just pretend it's a thing. There's clearly a deeper story going on here.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And for particularly with perhaps clients who do have a lot of emotional layers and clients who do live with trauma, you know, that, that perhaps may be mitigating of their experiences. But I understand that, you know, some of that let them theory works for some people and that's great and I'm a big believer in that. Everyone should find what's Right. For them, as an emotion focused therapist, I'm, I'm more so interested in working with the emotion rather than the cognition behind it and to support my clients in that way so that they feel heard in their lived experiences and that the emotions behind that are validated.
[00:15:01] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So. So there could be a number of reasons why that second layer of that external presentation of that automatic emotion comes out. So one is, you know, just, for example, it's too hard for me to show fear. Right. I don't want to throw that out to the world because I don't want to be seen as a wimp or too weak or, you know, unable to express that because I think someone will shut me down or dismiss me. Now let's, let's think of a really simple scenario. Driving in my car and, you know, obeying the, the laws and driving at SPE etc and some speeds in front of me and pushes their way in and almost, you know, I almost run into them.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: Sometimes automatically I go to fu. Yeah, what the are you doing?
And screaming at the top of my lungs.
But actually I'm actually scared. I'm actually scared I'm going to run into an accident, you know, car crash, and can't recover and horrible, horrible, horrible.
[00:16:19] Speaker B: Right, yes.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: But my initial out there to the world response is anger. That's a secondary presentation of an emotion.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: Yes, most definitely. And there's also, you know, as we're talking about emotions, there's also for secondary emotions, what we call undifferentiated emotions. And for undifferentiated emotions, it's emotions like anxiety where it's almost like, like there's this cluster of meshed emotions that's going on. And it feels like that there's this global distress coming as well. Right. Working with anxiety is typically what some people, a lot of my clients actually bring in in terms of what I notice and what they tend to notice through our work is this kind of secondary emotion before dropping into the deeper pain that they may have.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you know, whether you believe in the let them theory in terms of disconnecting from that emotion, you know, part, part of the theory of that that I actually accept is sometimes things are too intense. Right. Sometimes we actually need to regulate ourselves and slow the intensity down so we can understand it better. So we can, you know, take a few minutes to settle ourselves, reassure ourselves we're safe, e. And then reconnect. That's, that's the big difference between, you know, at CBT and Emotion focus is we Want to actually connect with it, but in safety in this more regulated space.
[00:17:56] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. And try and get into our bodies or build safety in our bodies to be able to access and. And sit with those emotions in more regulated state.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So one is I feel I can't be scared because I don't want to appear weak. Or there might be another example where you actually haven't had much time to know what sadness feels like on the inside. Right. Maybe we skip past that very quickly and therefore it's hard to, you know, where does sadness sit in my body? How does it actually feel? And do I suppress that, you know, really quickly?
[00:18:43] Speaker B: And. And it's almost like we're doing a bit of a body scan and what we like to call in the work, a bit of focusing so we notice what may come up in our body and what we're feeling and may have some visualization around that. And it's almost this gentle startup in terms of getting the language around what may be emerging for us.
[00:19:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think there's a really nice synergy between the this podcast and the Tuning Into Teens podcast, and that's why I wanted to bring that up today is a lot of teenagers are blowing up like volcanoes, losing their. Over something that maybe parents don't understand.
But sometimes, maybe not all the time, but sometimes it's actually needed to put the rules aside, put the waving finger inside and go, you know, instead of go to your room, etc, maybe it's like, whoa, this is really big. Like that you're blowing up. There's something going on here. But I need to sit in your corner. I need to understand you. You can't be disrespectful to me. You can't, you know, tell me to off, but clearly there's more here that I want to sit next to you with.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's that level of parenting or I guess that acceptance of. Of a lot of empathy around that child's emotions or that teen's emotions, you know, because that's a valid experience of their world.
And sometimes when the finger does get waved and this even happens with adults in their, perhaps relationships or with their own caregivers, even as adults, you know, sometimes it could feel like that I'm misunderstood or that my experiences aren't valid, which causes a lot of emotional pain, perhaps for that person. Yeah, a lot of distress.
[00:20:38] Speaker A: Yeah. So I guess naming a few of these examples kind of really paint a picture out there to. To listeners and Watchers that it can present quite differently. And, and the other kind of yucky thing about secondary emotions is usually they hang around. Usually they're kind of this L. We can't relax, we can't, you know, enjoy the rest of our day. It's very hard to connect or maybe socialize with other people because we've got this thing that is. Yuck.
[00:21:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And with the secondary emotions, it's exactly what you said at the beginning where that's the thing that people are facing, that's what's being presented to people. So people are working with what they're being presented with.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: Right.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: And they're attuning to what they're being presented with unknowingly, that you may, may be feeling something completely different. And whether that's unknowingly even to yourself. Yeah, right. There, there may be something emerging for you. And that brings me on to primary maladaptive emotions, which I feel like are quite important for us to touch on as well. And I know that we touched on this in another episode too, but just a little bit of a rehash for those listening, you know, for primary maladaptive emotions. It perhaps doesn't meet that need as we've been talking about at the beginning of, of this episode. So primary adaptive emotions, meeting needs, allowing us to thrive and survive in the world. With primary maladaptive emotions, they tend to come up from what we call historical wounds, attachment based needs that were unmet. It can come along with unprocessed emotion as well. So just say that you, for instance, with a friend that you may have at school and we'll use this because again, we're promoting teens here just for the moment. You know, with teens, if you have a friend at school and a friend just say, plays around with you and teases you, the adaptive emotion that would come up for you would be anger.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: Right.
[00:22:42] Speaker B: Because they've clearly broken trust with you. They've broken a boundary. Right. And so showing anger in an assertive way which perhaps sounds like, you know, I don't appreciate you calling me names or you hitting me, you know, know, instead of it being if it was named like that and the friend didn't accept that or perhaps ridiculed them even further, that could cause something, what's called a, a, a emotional wound which causes core pain. And it's almost like that anger then doesn't become processed. Although we named it, it wasn't validated by, in our interpersonal relationship with that person. Person. And so what happens then when we're adults Is that when we interact with someone in the workplace and there's that familiar vibe where people are joking around, perhaps around a work desk and making fun, the instant reaction may be this kind of anger. Right. Because it's. It's trying to have this.
The same thing.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. There's a thread that is continuing there. And yeah. Here's your colleagues just having a laugh or, you know. Yeah. Kind of saying something that everyone's laughing and you're not. And that's creating that very similar pattern that's, you know.
[00:24:05] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: You're being transported back to younger. Who is that bullying? Who experienced that. Yes, yeah.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: But instead of it being adaptive anger, it may come up as maladaptive anger where it may be more aggressive or more rejective. When you notice those behaviors with work colleagues.
[00:24:23] Speaker A: Yeah. So back to primaries. And there's. There's a primary anger, but there's also a secondary anger that, you know, there's something else going on there which kind of doubles it. Right. That presentation to the world. And you. And. And you might think later you might talk to your partner when you get home. You're like, I really lost it towards those people. Like, it just. It just doesn't make sense why it was such a big explosion.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. And you're exactly right. It's almost doubling that anger.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:58] Speaker B: And it's making sense of the experience too, which is what we do here with our emotion focused therapist and those trained in it, myself as. And yourself, Stu, as well. You know, we sit with that and we work through what. What was happening for you in that moment. Where perhaps did you go?
Where were you perhaps taken back to? And we do that in a nice gentle and safe way and bring that experience back so that we could relive it in a different way and replace that maladaptive emotion with a more adaptive function, adaptive purpose.
[00:25:33] Speaker A: The other thing, just to kind of throw a bit of a spanner in the works, is also interruptions of emotions.
And that can be an interesting one, particularly with people who, who might start to feel something and then it shut off. Right. So there's an interruption of. Of that emotion happening. Or maybe they're not feeling much at all. Maybe they walk around in life not feeling much joy, not feeling much anger or sadness or any of it, and they actually don't know why.
[00:26:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so with interruptions, interruptions are typically a protective process that. That could happen where the emotion that's being felt may be too strong or maybe there's a lot of Distress or discomfort that comes from feeling this emotion. And so what interruptions tend to, I guess, assist with, but not in an adaptive way because it holds what that emotional need is at bay. It kind of soothes it by keeping it all under wraps. But what keeps happening is that when you enter the environment and that emotion gets elicited again. It's almost like the cyclical pattern that occurs throughout this person's life.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And so part of that shutdown, part of that thing that takes over or stops, it pauses. It also has a narrative of, that's right, mom and dad are too busy or they've got too much on their plate, or, you know, I don't want to fall apart because that's really scary.
[00:27:16] Speaker B: And perhaps that person at a younger age would have relied on that other part there. Yeah, right. It was useful once upon a time. But perhaps in the relationships or interpersonal interactions they get in the future, perhaps it doesn't serve the same purpose.
And when we talk about interruption, this is exactly what you said, Stu, about that sense of shutting down or that sense of perhaps not knowing what we feel. Feel.
[00:27:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So we're really linking. If a primary emotion is kind of bubbling, that's good. We need to first develop a relationship, settle it down. Like back to our emotional scale. We did a, I did a little tool related to 0 to 10. If, if you can kind of get that level down to say a 4 or 5. But so feel it. Don't push it away. Feel it, feel it. But it's less intense.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:11] Speaker A: Then we're kind of tuning into what's going on. Why is that bubbling? What is that emotion trying to tell us?
[00:28:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and it helps us develop the language around it so that we could actually meet that emotion based need. So again, if it's fear, fear dictates that we need safety. So what is it that I'm needing in my interpersonal relationship or whatever I presented to therapy with where I'm needing to be safe? And is that that primary? And again, this is all through that exploration. Is that fear primary or is it something that's secondary?
[00:28:45] Speaker A: That's a kind of pulling all those threads together. That's our aim. But we, you know, I want to kind of stress to people that might be listening or watching that this takes time to build. Right. The, the concepts we're talking about here can be complicated, especially if you haven't built a big relationship with your internal world. Emotions this take time, but it's an, it's a really big kind of explanatory thing of why people might be blowing up, why people might be, you know, hanging around with these. These bad smells that's hard to get rid of.
A quick little anecdote.
My record.
I'm not sure I shouldn't say it like that, but I will. My record for someone kind of just. Just, you know, tears. Right. Is I met a tradie and never done counseling before. His partner was pushing him to. To counseling, and he sat down and he. And he said, look, I'm just angry all the time, and. And I'm just, you know, freaking out and. And blowing up at my partner, and everything is. Everything's up. And I said, okay, that's interesting. And then I said, I don't actually.
Tell me if I'm wrong here, but I don't know whether you're actually an angry guy or are you a hurt guy.
Right. Here is this person, this client, holding on and all this stuff just bubbling up that they didn't know what to do with. You know, they had this kind of track record of anger, and they just kept following that, but they felt so isolated because they couldn't share with their partner. They didn't have the words for it. And right in front of me, they just needed to just let go.
[00:30:40] Speaker B: And how healing and how beautiful that it was. And this is a prime example of seeing the primary emotion, even though perhaps there isn't that language. I'm not sure if this was just the first session, but not having the lamp, but at least instead of the anger being secondary, you really went to that primary. Primary. And you. Sounds like you really brought him into a beautiful place of vulnerability that you held him in, and it sounds like he was really seen.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: Yeah. So that's kind of our aim, not. Not to make everyone cry, but if that happens, we have tissues.
But there's clearly a need for vulnerability, and so safety, yes, but vulnerability also to get to the core of what's going on and even what the person is missing thing. Right. Because, you know, like we said at the very start, if we're scared, we need to connect to safety. If we're angry, usually 99 times out of 10, there is some unfair, bubbling stuff where we just feel like we're hitting our heads against a brick wall and nobody's listening. That's really shitty.
[00:31:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
And again, going straight to that primary, because if you would have stuck with that anger, you know, that would have been a completely different session, and perhaps it wouldn't have brought him to that place.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: Maybe.
Yeah, Maybe. Yeah. Or maybe there was a more primary anger of, yeah, nobody cares, nobody gives a. You know.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:32:20] Speaker A: All right, so let's, let's do a recap because we're talking about a lot of language here and a lot of new ideas for people. Emotions, important, we need them.
But first we need to start to build a relationship with them, turn the intensity down. And then we have a bit more of a better spot, a safer spot, to understand what's going on. Right.
We have two layers or kind of two quite basic ideas related to primary emotions and secondary emotions. And often we jump to secondary emotions because we feel we can't show the primary one. We can't show fear, we can't show sadness because of external stuff that we've grown up with.
Mum, dad, you know, tell me to shut up so I won't, I won't show my sadness. Or that there's this build up that goes on that stops us sharing that. And then we hinted at interruptions, other stuff that might get in the way, or a historical thing that makes you go numb. So it's different to a secondary emotion. It's more, I'm not feeling things, I'm shut off from what's going on.
Yeah. Cool.
And I guess to kind of wrap all this up to life and mental health in a general saying something really generally here, mental health is complicated.
And so, yes, you know, if we're a fully fledged human and we can access our primary emotions and, and sit and do that, great. But other stuff gets in the way. It could be other mental health stuff, eg, you know, you have bipolar or anxiety that might get in the way and kind of distort what's going on. It's hard to access that or trauma that your body is just so overwhelmed and your body is just so used to seeing that beast, the jungle. It's very hard to turn that intensity down.
[00:34:27] Speaker B: Yes. And it, it perhaps skews or obscures your internal emotional compass. Yeah, yeah. And it, it's very important when working with things like bipolar or trauma that we do that in a very safe way and that we get a relationship with just talking about certain aspects, then bring it into the body eventually. But it, it being a SL process.
[00:34:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And when we're dealing with other humans, sometimes it's very hard to share how we feel. Maybe we haven't done that before or we feel that it doesn't land well when we try to approach our partner or family member or even counselors get it wrong. Right.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:14] Speaker A: And therefore there's this other battery. There's this external barrier going on to dig it Process.
If you're listening today watching the this episode, let's do a check in. Right? So I just want everyone to just take a deep breath and just check in from the top of your head, down through your neck, down through your chest, your shoulders, the rest of your body.
And just notice you might be feeling a bit edgy, you might be feeling a bit buzzed because you've had a busy day.
You might feel a bit buzzed because there's coffee running through your face. Like me.
Just take a minute and explore. And if even if that feels just a bit funny, that's okay. We're just checking in. We're just tuning in and seeing, observing what's going on.
And that is kind of step one of what is going on. And you then might need to go use our emotional tool and slow that down because you found something or maybe you don't really notice anything. That's okay too. We're just starting to explore here. We're just starting to ask the questions, throw the questions out there and then it's up to you. Do you need some extra help? Is it very tricky for you to express what's going on for you? Or maybe you haven't really done that checking in before? That's all okay. That's what counseling support is about.
And it's actually further to that is you feeling more connected with yourself, getting your needs met, addressing what's going on there and you feeling being also more connected with the people around you.
Great. Cool.
So thank you, Daniel. I love having our chats together. It feels like it flows. I don't even have to have, you know, points down. We just flow. So that's lovely.
[00:37:21] Speaker B: It's shared as well. Stu, thank you again for having me on. Such amazing, amazing work and. And to give this information and platforms to people is. Is great. So thank you once again for having me on. It's been a pleasure. Pleasure.
[00:37:34] Speaker A: Awesome. Thanks guys. And please like and share and subscribe. I. I need to get started to get used to this. I've done a few episodes now, so bear with me on that. And if you have someone in your life that does get angry, share this.
