Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: This dynamic with a person who has ADHD and a person who doesn't, and how the person with adhd, as they're struggling with, you know, with the organizational parts of life or maybe emotions or impulsivity and things like that, can lead to dynamics in the relationship where they feel very criticized by their neurotypical partner who maybe doesn't have those challenges and finds those parts of life quite easy to manage and maybe doesn't understand why they're so hard to the ADHD person to manage. But underneath, there's. There's usually more going on there, and so understanding what's underneath and how to actually communicate what's underneath instead.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Hi, everyone.
So today we're going to be talking about ADHD in relationships.
[00:00:47] Speaker A: Yeah, we are.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: We're going to be talking about what it's like for ADHD person being in a relationship with a neurotypical person who. How they may be feeling within that relationship, some of the common presentations that we currently see within the workplace. And we're also going to be talking about what it may be like for the other person in their shoes and some other challenges that may come into the space as well. Just before we start, we at Safe Place Therapy here like to pay our respects to the traditional custodians of the land, and we like to pay our respects to elders past and present and acknowledge that land was never ceded and that this is and always will be Aboriginal land and first nations land. So to start off, I'm Daniel DiPietro. I'm a sexologist and psychotherapist here at Safe Place Therapy, and this is my colleague. And I'll win.
[00:01:37] Speaker A: Thank you, Daniel. Thank you. My name is Sophie Manente and I'm a counselor here at Safe Place Therapy, and Daniel and I have worked together for a few years.
[00:01:46] Speaker B: Yes, yes. It's been really lovely.
[00:01:48] Speaker A: It's been great.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:49] Speaker A: And talking about ADHD and relationships today.
[00:01:51] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
[00:01:52] Speaker A: Excited.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm keen for it. So jumping in, then, you know, I'm wondering what perhaps you have seen come through the door when it comes to ADHD folks in relation with a neurotypical person. Even that seems to be something that we've been discussing in our current caseload, something that we typically see.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure.
I think that something that I often come across, I think a lot of the challenges that we can see when we're working with people individually on ADHD can kind of come across into the challenges for relationships as well. Like a lot of the challenges with the organizational parts of life, challenges with Impulsivity, maybe, or managing emotions. All of these things really impact on a relationship and how two people share life together.
And so I find that a lot of the challenges can come up in those areas in relationships as well.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: And so, you know, I also experience in my current caseload, you know, this sense around task management and that being a real sticking point in relationships, particularly when one person's living with ADHD and the other person's neurotypical in a way, you know, I call it the criticized partner because that's typically what I hear them talk about in their experience.
And then the. On the other shoe, it's almost like this caregiver role.
Is. Is that something that you experience as well in your current.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like I've seen that dynamic many times, and I think that's a good way of putting it, that there's this kind of the. This dynamic with a person who has ADHD and a person who doesn't, and how the person with adhd, as they're struggling with, you know, with the organizational parts of life or maybe emotions or impulsivity and things like that, can lead to dynamics in the relationship where they feel very criticized by their neurotypical partner who maybe doesn't have those challenges and finds those parts of life quite easy to manage and maybe doesn't understand why they're so hard for the ADHD person to manage.
[00:03:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:59] Speaker A: And so that the non ADHD person can easily become frustrated or, you know, upset and end up kind of expressing that in ways that maybe that maybe are, you know, while the emotions and the experience is all really understandable, that can often be expressed in ways that can kind of get in the way of resolutions.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I really resonate with that in my work. I talk a lot when it comes to the relational aspect in terms of, you know, what's underneath the criticism.
And, you know, sometimes there's this real subjective view around, because I should be able to do this. You should be able to, too. And I'm quite curious around. How do you work with that as well? You know, I'm happy to share some of my perspectives as to how I see that happening in the space, but I'm quite curious around how you would work with that if one person has a certain way of being and perhaps places this expectation, whether explicitly or otherwise, on the other.
[00:05:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, good question. I think that a large part of how I work. And you touched on it, I think that such an important part of it is figuring out what's Underneath, you know, what are the kind of needs that are being expressed there? They're coming out in ways, you know, like feeling really frustrated and saying, why can't you just do this? Yes, but what's really going on there?
So for both parties, trying to really understand what's happening, because on the surface, and often what people are talking about, what they're bringing to us, I think, at least from what I've seen is, you know, one person is feeling very criticized and the other person is feeling very, you know, hard done by or resentful or feeling like they're having to do all this caregiving and taking on all this work. But underneath there's, there's usually more going on there. And so understanding what's underneath and how to actually communicate what's underneath instead.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: Because that's the hard part. Yeah, yeah. And I, I feel like that's a lot of our work in terms of trying to decipher or distill what's actually trying to be said here.
And you know, I'm quite curious on the criticized partner part. Now I could talk into a little bit about perhaps what some folks share in my space. I'm wondering what are some of the things that you perhaps feel get shared in your space? First around what, when you say to criticize partner, what do you feel like is typically being criticized or there's criticism of.
[00:06:28] Speaker A: Criticism of. Yeah, yeah. So the person who's receiving the criticism.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: Yeah. So the person living with adhd and it's like they have to meet some sort of expectation or be a certain way within the relationship with a neurotypical person.
What's some of the criticism that you may hear people express in your space?
[00:06:46] Speaker A: In my space, I, I think often there'll be criticism of their capability and capacity and can come. And even though, you know, there are challenges there with capability and capacity. So it's not like it's coming from somewhere. You know, there is a challenge there.
But because. Yeah, because it is coming across as a criticism, then that can feel very. For the criticized partner or, you know, the, the ADHD partner in this case, that can feel very demoralizing for them.
[00:07:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:19] Speaker A: And so they're. Yeah. And so they're often talking to me about feeling. Yeah. Feeling demoralized, feeling very hurt, feeling misunderstood, feeling not good enough.
There can be a lot of really difficult emotions coming up there.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: I resonate with that deeply when I'm across from a couple or a relationship where that, you know, the term is the criticized partners of the person living with adhd we typically, what we typically see in space here is that it's a sense around, you know, I can't do. It's like I keep getting told I can't do the task efficiently or perhaps I don't have enough resources to go out and do certain things. And it's like I'm being seen as this killjoy or on the other end, the polar opposite is that I have too much energy and I'm seen as someone who's quite impulsive and, you know, can't be grounded.
[00:08:12] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah. A lot of like looking at things from a deficiency standpoint, isn't it? Yeah.
[00:08:18] Speaker B: And I'm glad you were talking about this because I always talk about the strengths as well. And we're having a bit of a chat before we jump to your space around the strengths. You know, I'm wondering what perhaps strengths you see within ADHD folk and soph. And I really talk about a strengths approach as well when it comes to people living in neurodiversity, that there's a lot of the negative aspect that gets kind of put forward or the deficit gets put forward, but there are a lot of strengths, right?
[00:08:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. And that was a fun, fun part of our conversation, I think, because I think, you know, the, I think a big one that stands out for me is the tendency towards novelty.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: And the kind of. Yeah. The kind of moving towards novelty that people with ADHD have, they seek out a lot of novelty, which means they're good at making it happen in their lives, which is actually really good for relationships, especially for long term relationships. Bringing novelty into a relationship brings the spark back. Exactly.
Which I'm sure a lot of people can relate to in terms of having been in long term relationships and maybe losing that spark.
Someone with ADHD is going to be really good at creating that spark just in how they move through the world. And that's really cool.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: Yeah, it's awesome. And you know, as well as perhaps feeling, you know, we talked about feelings as well. So, you know, some, some ADHD folk or neurodiverse folk may feel a lot deeper than someone who's neurotypical. And so that could open up vulnerability as well. And not just for themselves, but for their partner. It's kind of modeling that sense of vulnerability that I could show these emotions that perhaps aren't typically seen by a neurotypical person. And I'm not sure if that resonates.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: Totally. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think I've seen, I feel that, I feel that. I see that A lot as well.
Yeah, that, that, that ability, you know, a capability to feel emotions quite deeply. Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. It can be challenging when there are some difficult emotions that come up in a really big way. And, and sometimes you know that there needs to be some extra, extra space there to.
I sometimes talk to my people, my clients who experience these sort of bigger emotions because of neurodiversity to make some space for that and that there can be room to process that. But on the flip side, well, it means that the good emotions are also experienced in a bigger way. So joy can be expressed in this really effusive and vibrant way. And excitement.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: Yeah, it brings a lot of energy, a lot of amazing energy into a relationship. And sometimes when there is a sort of a conflict within a relationship that gets kind of lost and you know, coming back to the relational aspect between someone who's neurodiverse and someone who's neurotypical, you know, we use that term, the caregiver. You know, that's what I currently hear in my space when someone comes in who's neurotypical in a relationship, someone living with adhd, you know, can you talk a little bit into about. That's what you hear from them in terms of what they feel like they're caregiving for.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: So the non ADHD part, what do they feel like they're caregiving for?
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: So I think from their experience and we. It's. Thank you for asking. Because it's so important to focus on both experiences and this relationship and this dynamic. Right.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: It's a relationship.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: It's a relationship. There's two people bringing.
[00:11:50] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:11:50] Speaker A: Bringing everything equally. That's right.
But yeah, from the person who ends up. We're calling it caregiving in this video because that's what we often hear that partner expressing something along those lines. Even if the word caregiver doesn't resonate for everyone, something along those lines often comes across. It's something around I have to do so much.
I have to do so much.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: Overextending over compromising.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: Yeah, overextending over compromising and having to do so much because of what it feels, that challenge that because of X challenge that's happening in the relationship or in the home.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: And I often, this often expressing this feeling of having to sacrifice, you know, because of that overextending, this kind of feeling of sacrifice enough and, and alongside that a feeling of maybe resentment or anger or even feeling used sometimes, you
[00:12:43] Speaker B: know, things like that, particularly when they're longer term relationships.
[00:12:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: You know, that someone may feel that way if this has been the dynamic for so long.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:52] Speaker B: It feels like, you know, I've kind of compromised my needs. Was so long here, and it's like I'm wanting something to change. But, you know, going back, it's like when those needs are named, they come from a place of criticism.
Is the hurts being there just can festering, so to speak, for so long?
[00:13:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that's it. It just sits there and. And isn't the. You know, because it can be so hard to communicate what the deeper needs are and. But because those needs aren't being communicated there, they don't get a chance to be seen and met, and so they're just sitting there and sitting there and festering. Yeah, that's it. And so. Yeah, when. Whenever. I mean, it's a very human thing when something. When you're holding on to something for so long, it starts to fester. It really does. It's a very human and understandable process. And that's why learning to actually understand what those needs are and how to communicate them in a. In a way that is just going to make it easier for your partner to understand, you know?
[00:13:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: Because if you're coming across in this. In coming at it in this really kind of from that place of hurt, but it's coming across as criticism, it is going to make it harder for your partner to hear you and understand. You can hear that? Who can hear that? Yeah. Who can hear, you know, some version of what's wrong with you?
[00:14:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: Without.
[00:14:06] Speaker B: Why can't you just do this?
[00:14:08] Speaker A: Why can't you just. Yeah, exactly. Why can't you just.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:12] Speaker A: Who can hear that without feeling defensive or without really being able to take much in other than the criticism.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's so important to name the language. I'm wondering how you feel like you work with that language.
I like to hear perhaps how you navigate that space, and I'm happy to share as well. I feel like that's such a key component in that relational work. How do we, I guess, assist our finds to speak their needs more authentically and from a place of emotion, rather than it coming from this place of criticism?
[00:14:49] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it. Yeah. I think. Yeah. In terms of. It's, you know, my goal is always to support the clients to articulate what those needs are, and that will just be through asking a lot of questions, to kind of get underneath what's really happening, kind of acknowledging, yes, you've expressed this, but what does that. What does it mean for you? You know, what if this is true?
[00:15:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: What does this actually mean?
[00:15:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And so again, you know, what, what we're doing here and what we do in our work is there are both sides to the story. Yep. Right. But, yeah, so, yeah, what. What does this mean for you?
[00:15:23] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it. Would it be a. A similar approach?
[00:15:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it would be more so. Yeah. Quite similar approach and understanding, I guess. Where can we find some middle ground? Because currently what's happening isn't working.
Trying to speak from a place where, again, the partner or the criticized partner could actually hear and then have the resources then to lean in. Because if someone's being criticized, who's going to want to lean into that? Yeah, that's so difficult.
[00:15:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: So it's really navigating how do. How do we get our clients to express their needs so that they could get met and in a way that sits better within a relationship? And I talk also about task, you know, as you mentioned at the very beginning of our talk here, you know, navigating. So if we are doing X task at home, is that realistic in terms of what we have for our organizational capacity or task capacity? Do we need to change what we use our spoons for?
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how you sit with the whole spoons aspect of it, but is that something you use in your work when it comes to relationships and I guess navigating where that sits for certain people?
[00:16:41] Speaker A: I think so, yeah. Yeah. I think that's so useful as well. That kind of framework of spoons. Spoon theory, thinking about how we need a certain amount of spoons to do certain amount of tasks, but we don't all have the same amount of spoons to start off with.
[00:16:55] Speaker B: Subjective.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: They're so subjective. There's no rules to spoons.
[00:16:58] Speaker B: No.
[00:16:59] Speaker A: And so, yeah, I think that's so helpful as well.
Kind of helping clients understand how their spoons, how their energy actually works and what is a realistic expectation and how to manage that and what needs to be done.
And I think it is a lot easier for the partner who does perhaps have some reduced capacity. Like people with ADHD can struggle with these things.
That is real, but that needs to be kind of understood and supported rather than. Yes, you know, criticized.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: But if I've. I've seen anyway in the people I've worked with that if someone, if the person with ADHD is met with that kind of curiosity and understanding.
Yeah, curiosity. Yeah, the curiosity of like, so what is it actually like for you then? What is Actually realistic for you. How are you actually feeling in. In this space between us while we talk about this? If they're met with that, it's. I mean, I've sometimes even seen their capacity increase because they're, because they. They suddenly.
[00:18:04] Speaker B: Feeling understood.
[00:18:05] Speaker A: Feeling understood is really good for us.
[00:18:07] Speaker B: Yes.
It does wonders.
[00:18:10] Speaker A: It does wonders.
Great for your mental health. Look. It really is.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: We may not be sitting here.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: Exactly. It does wonders. And so, yeah, I find that it can just open up so much room for a. A new kind of dynamic to happen.
[00:18:28] Speaker B: Definitely.
[00:18:29] Speaker A: If that person is met with. With curiosity and warmth and.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:33] Speaker A: And at least an. In a desire to understand. Even if the other partner doesn't fully understand yet. At least a desire to understand.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: Yes, yes. And, you know, I. This has been really awesome talking about that sense of curiosity, opening up it. Allowing to increase capacity.
We also touched on just before coming into this chat, the acknowledgment of each other's roles within a relationship and what we're contributing to the conflict here.
You know, I hear sometimes in my space that the person who's living with ADHD may say, well, I can't help it, I've got adhd. And I'm wondering how you perhaps see that play out, if you see that play out in your space. And how do you navigate that? Because I. I have some ways of working with that as well. Yeah.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Great. Yeah. This is. Yeah. So important as well, because it is. Yeah. Everyone's roles in a dynamic has to be fully acknowledged. And it can be very easy, especially as we talk about how we need to really understand and support people with ADHD and what they're dealing with. It can be very easy then to kind of.
Yeah. To that. For that. To feel like. Well, for the person with adhd, this is just me.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:48] Speaker A: And there's nothing I can do about it.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: Which there's some. Some acknowledgment and acceptance on that. Right. That this is what. What someone is living with and, you know, this is their lived experience.
But there's also. So that's fine if I'm by myself, but if I'm in relation with another person, what I do influences that other person also. So then what do we need to do to take accountability there?
[00:20:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that's it. And I think I. I like to talk about how anyone. Like we all have things that make us difficult to be with and difficult to live with.
[00:20:24] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:25] Speaker A: And we all have to be responsible for those things. The impacts that that might have in
[00:20:30] Speaker B: a relationship doesn't matter if you're neurodiverse, neurotypical, it's any relationship, any relationship, any person.
[00:20:37] Speaker A: Exactly.
And for some people, the things that make them sometimes a difficult partner can be related to a health condition.
Sometimes it's not. But either way, even if something is not our fault, it's still something that we have to have some responsibility for because it is having an impact on the people around us. And like you said, if I'm by myself, that's okay, I can lean into it. That's the way you are and that's perfectly fine. It's not affecting anyone. But if it is affecting someone, then you'll at least, you'll probably find that your relationships will maybe work a bit better and feel a bit happier if you can kind of meet the other person halfway and go, I, this, I acknowledge and accept that this is who I am. But I also acknowledge and accept that it's having this impact on you and I care about the impact it's having on you.
[00:21:29] Speaker B: Yeah, and beautifully said that. I, I, this is what's happening for me. This is who I am. But I could also see this is having a big impact on you. And so where do we meet that kind of midway, Mark and having open discussions and curiosity around that. So do we need, I think what we've covered here so far is do we need to reorganize how we do our housework together or do we need to reorganize if there's any sensory challenges there when we go out, where we go out?
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's it. Is there something, Exactly. Is there something about how the person with ADHD is managing their day to day life? Maybe there's a lot of energy being drained elsewhere. So there's not much energy left for, for doing things around the home or for organizing things for the family or whatever it is.
So yeah, kind of thinking about, thinking about all of that. Again, curiosity, that's where it comes in. If we can really try to understand the whole picture and try to come up with, come up with a way of organizing things that actually is realistic and works better is so much easier when we kind of come at it from this curious, open perspective of what's happening for both.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Definitely, definitely. And also it's quite important for anyone in any relationship to be aware of what they're needing to recharge.
And you know, particularly for some neurodiverse folk that I see, they, they talk about this burnout experience and it's so, so what do we need to do to put Things in place so that you could fully show up in your relationship when you're at home. So do you need some space for you for X amount of period so that we can refill your spoon drawer?
[00:23:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's it. I love that. Exactly. That's such a big part of just, I think just learning how to, how to live with ADHD or kind of neurodiverse condition is. Yeah, learning. Learning how your energy is actually impacted by your day to day life and if there are things that can be tweaked so that you can have more energy for the things that. Where you feel like maybe you're not having enough energy for or the things that are important to you, like hopefully your relationship.
[00:23:32] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
And Nemo. One of the other aspects that we discussed was more so how we enter relationships.
Yes, yes. And do you also feel like it's important for us to do a bit of a disclosure or are you wanting to leave a disclosure around? Because I'm living with neurodiversity.
Do you feel like that that would be important for the video if we do it or just leave?
[00:24:02] Speaker A: We don't have to. I think, if you'd like to. I think, I think I'd rather not for me personally, but if you want to, absolutely.
[00:24:08] Speaker B: No, no, no, no. I can leave that out.
[00:24:10] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, fair enough. Cool.
[00:24:12] Speaker B: So we're back.
[00:24:13] Speaker A: We're back.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: So, you know, we also had a bit of a chat before coming in here around when people start dating who are living with adhd. And sometimes, you know, I hear some folk who get swept away in all the energy off it all. And sometimes what can happen is that the person can see that they perhaps set up some unrealistic expectations as to what they could actually deliver per se within a relationship. I'm wondering if you've seen that happen in your space or clients have reported that in terms of whether it be a neurotypical partner saying, you know, well, they weren't like this when I first saw them or, you know, when I first saw them. They were. They were busy as a bee and now it's just so hard to, you know, whatever it may be.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's so true. That's so interesting that. Yeah, I remember when we talked about this that such an. It can be such an interesting part of dating for people with ADHD because again about the tendency towards novelty and the being really energized by novelty and new relationships are full of novelty. Nre. Yeah, nre. New relationship energy. Exactly. It's a universal experience.
But for people with adhd, there's just this added layer to it. There can be anyway, this added layer to it where it can just give them so much energy because there's so. Because of that novelty and how they're, you know, so kind of responsive to novelty.
[00:25:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: And so, yeah, they can maybe have a lot more energy in general than is. Than is their typical kind of baseline.
[00:25:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:49] Speaker A: And so maybe.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: Spoons in the drawer.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: More spoons in the drawer. Yes, thank you. Exactly. More spoons in the drawer. So they maybe can. Can do things and show up in ways that are maybe not typical for them.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:01] Speaker A: And might be able to do a lot more, you know, plan a lot more dates or, you know, show up with surprises or, you know, those kind of really fun, fun, exciting things in a new relationship, but that do take some energy to put together.
[00:26:16] Speaker B: They do. Yeah. Yeah. And perhaps doesn't set a realistic expectation that if I was to enter a relationship with this person, is that sustainable?
And I talk when I have clients or individuals who come in who have started dating who are living with adhd, you know, we talk around sense about what. How am I showing up authentically, how am I painting the picture that is authentically me? Because it's important that we're authentic in our relationships. Yeah, Yeah. I don't know if that's something you resonate with as well.
[00:26:50] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That it can be so. It can be so tempting, I think, in it for anyone really, to try and really put their best foot forward when they're newly dating someone. But we do. Yeah, we do have to be authentic. Um, and we do have to try and set some realistic expectations for who we. For who we are, you know, and for what dating. Dating. Us. Dating me would look like.
[00:27:10] Speaker B: Yes, you know, exactly.
[00:27:12] Speaker A: Um, and so, yeah, I think important for a person, for anyone going into dating, but for the purposes of. Of this video and how people with ADHD experience relationships, good to just keep that in mind. You know, if you're experiencing this thing, this huge upswing of energy when you're newly dating someone, it can be maybe easy to think like, God, it's the new me.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: I'm revitalized.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: I've revitalized.
Well, it could just be new relationship energy.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. And. And, you know, I invite the sense of slowing things down. Let's just. Let's just slow down and really sit with and be really firm and secure with our boundaries. Doesn't mean we need to close someone off completely. But, you know, let. Let's be kind of secure with our boundaries here and perhaps not be porous, because sometimes new relationship energy can make us a bit porous with our boundaries. You know, we just want to be with that person and we want to experience new things with them. And that novelty, as you named.
[00:28:09] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. We can be too porous. Like kind of give too much and put too much. We might, you know, be more willing to show up to work tired the next day because we were up late with, you know, with this new person we're seeing. And things like that, again, like, can set up these unrealistic expectations for how much time and energy you might have for this person once reality sits kind of kicks in as you realize maybe this.
[00:28:32] Speaker B: Maybe this is what I do.
[00:28:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Maybe this isn't sustainable.
Not something I can maintain over time. So. Yeah. Just being aware of whether.
[00:28:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:43] Speaker A: Whether boundaries are becoming a bit too.
A bit too porous, Bit too wavy.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And another aspect that I feel like is quite important for us to name here is, uh, you know, sometimes there is pressures for neurodiverse folk to fit into a neurotypical mold. And I want to talk about that as well, because, yes, there's nre, you know, new relationship energy, but there's also a sense about, isn't this what I'm supposed to be doing?
Can. Can you talk a little bit into. I guess, if you experience that also in your space.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, totally. I get what you mean. Yeah.
Like there can be this. Yeah. The kind of neurotypical expectations also. I think that's something that's spoken about a lot in the neurodiversity space. But I think it affects things in early stages of dating as well. There can be this kind of neurotypical script for how the early stages of dating are meant to go.
[00:29:35] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: And so maybe a person who's neurodiverse might feel a pressure to meet those expectations, be really good at planning the dates, and always bring flowers and, you know, all these kinds of things.
Which, again, might be unrealistic to maintain.
[00:29:52] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:29:53] Speaker A: Over time.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:54] Speaker B: And how do you navigate that space when it does emerge or if it merges?
[00:30:00] Speaker A: I think. Yeah. I'm just thinking back now. I think it's definitely something I've had chats with clients about on a one. On one basis when I'm been working with a client for a while and they enter into a new relationship and we start to notice together this new relationship energy thing happening or this maybe this pressure they might be Putting on themselves to be a certain way and act a certain way, show up a certain way, and how much does that actually fit with who they are?
[00:30:29] Speaker B: And I'm glad you kind of touched on that aspect. We call this the felt sense in the therapeutic work. It's this bodily sensation of emotion that emerges and that's how I kind of work with it when it comes up in the space, you know, I'm quite curious. The curiosity as to, you know, so. So what is underneath that, in that expectation and what is that feeling behind that? Because, you know, sometimes a lot of neurodiverse folk could talk about shame.
Right. And again, why can't I just.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Rather than it coming from perhaps someone else. It happens internally.
[00:31:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's so true. Yeah. Kind of understanding where the.
Yeah. Understanding what is driving certain things and tapping into that felt sense. I think you're right. Is so helpful for that. You know, like what is driving this need to really prove yourself in this new relationship? Is it, is it maybe a shame or is it maybe a lot of fear or anxiety or things like that? Of course an element of anxiety is normal in a new relationship. But if we, yeah, again, if we dig a little deeper or have that curiosity again, what's really going on underneath, you know, really understanding what's happening there.
That's a team. Yeah. What's up? Get in there, get underneath. Get underneath what's going on.
Yeah, I think that I found that to be really helpful for people navigating that situation as well.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And gives them a bit of a compass.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Yeah. An internal compass which I think is so useful for so many situations in life.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: Of course.
[00:31:59] Speaker A: But especially with dating where it's a mindfield. It's a. Dating is a minefield. You know, whether we're talking about new relationships or even long term relationships where
[00:32:08] Speaker B: it's, you know, be a minefield.
[00:32:09] Speaker A: That's a minefield as well.
[00:32:11] Speaker B: You know, how do we keep it alive?
You know, how do we, how do we have different experience and how we transition to different stages of our lives?
[00:32:21] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's it. How do we work through all the, you know, once a relationship has gone on for a long time and you've had so many experiences together and your relationship kind of has built its, its own issues, you know, and how do you kind of see through all of that and try to understand what's really going on? That can be a minefield. But if you are, if you do just, you know, with whatever in life kind of practice tapping into that felt sense of how are you actually feeling in different situations? What does that tell you about the situations you're in?
[00:32:53] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: If you practice making decisions based on that felt sense and you kind of see where it leads you, hopefully a good place. You know, if you kind of harness that more and more over time, it can really help when you get into these murky waters of, you know, relationships. For example, one of the most important but complicated areas of our lives, if not the. The. The Absolutely the most important because it's.
[00:33:18] Speaker B: How do I fit in with this person's way of being? And how do. How do our jigsaw pieces connect?
[00:33:24] Speaker A: Yeah, how do our jigsaw pieces connect? We're all kind of got our own edges. Yes.
Little gaps and things. You know, how do we make those?
[00:33:33] Speaker B: And we just try and make it work.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it. Try our best to make it work. But I think these things help a lot.
[00:33:39] Speaker B: Yeah. To understand as well. Are we the right jigsaw piece?
[00:33:42] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it.
[00:33:43] Speaker B: And that's a little bit of a compass. Are we the right jigsaw piece for this other.
[00:33:47] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. That's it again. And that can be such a hard conversation to have, but such an important conversation. And again, why. Why being authentic is so important? You know, because if you're not quite the right jigsaw pieces for each other, then maybe that can be worked out a bit easier if you are showing up authentically.
If you're curious as well, it can be easier to have those difficult conversations.
[00:34:12] Speaker B: Conversations.
[00:34:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, I mean, these and. Yeah, these are just such good relationship skills to have, I think. And I don't know. I don't know if you've experienced this. I'd be curious if you have.
But sometimes when talking about these sorts of issues like navigating ADHD in relationships and things like that, when clients learn some of these sorts of skills, it seems to be able to help them in lots of other areas of life as well.
[00:34:36] Speaker B: It's so interpersonal, and that's with just many different relationships in someone's lives. You know, some clients come back and they say, well, you know, actually had an okay time at my family's place.
Right. Or, you know, I had this one friend who, you know, I've been having a bit of a gripe with, but we've come to some understanding, and I've been able to name when something hasn't made me feel where I felt uncomfortable.
[00:35:02] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:35:03] Speaker B: It's just made them feel a bit more authentic to themselves and their own needs.
[00:35:08] Speaker A: That's so true. Yeah, great. That's great to hear that. It's like these skills are so transferable,
[00:35:12] Speaker B: you know, it's not just romantic relationships, it's any relationship.
[00:35:17] Speaker A: Yeah, that's so true. I think we probably, in, you know, in our rooms, we probably probably hear people talk about their romantic relationships and how ADHD can impact romantic relationships more often than maybe other other relationships. I think another common one I hear, though, is housemates.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: Yeah, that is what comes in my space as well.
[00:35:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I hear that quite a lot, probably with families as well, like parents talking about their children and those relationships as well.
But romantic relationships, it seems to be. It seems to be the most common one because there is the most kind of. There's just so much closeness and intimacy in those relationships if you're living together. So there's so much more overlapping of worlds. So these challenges can just be a lot more prominent there.
[00:36:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, there's typically. There'd be a lot more workability because I don't know about yourself, but, you know, I've rarely seen the housemate come to therapy in an interpersonal setting or a relational setting, so, you know, it's much easier to work with. But if you are having those challenges with a housemate or with family, again, it's just sticking with that compass that we've been talking into here and really being.
Noticing what's emerging for you. And I think the famous quote there is, the body knows.
[00:36:41] Speaker A: The body knows. The body knows. Yeah, I think we've all. Well, I think, anyway, I know I've experienced it a lot and I've spoken to so many clients, friends, co workers, everyone in life of, like, we know that feeling of when you just have a gut feeling, your body is just telling you something.
[00:36:56] Speaker B: It knows.
[00:36:56] Speaker A: It knows. Even if you don't want to hear it, even if you don't know what to do with that feeling, or if you. Even if you don't even really understand why you're having that feeling. It's just giving you a feeling.
[00:37:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And that would be important to bring into if you needed support around. If it's hard to sit with that feeling or you have a bit of a vague understanding coming into individual or partnership therapy. I can be a benefit for us to help you explore that a little bit deeper, build some language around that and for you to live your authentic life or being your authentic relationship as you're wanting to be.
[00:37:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it. Well put. Well put. I think that's it. I think Coming, Coming into that space. It gives you a space where it is easier to be curious.
[00:37:40] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:37:40] Speaker A: I think it can be hard when you're at home with your partner and the dishes haven't been done again and you know, come at it with curiosity. You can get there. It's totally possible to get there. But I think coming to therapy can be such a great kind of scaffolding to do that when it's. To get you going in that direction when it's really hard.
[00:37:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:59] Speaker A: Because I think it's just easier when there's a third person in the room. For example, it's not just the two of you at home.
The third person in the room who is unbiased, who's trained in holding these sorts of issues and is really comfortable holding the issue. Um, so it's not just up to the two of you to manage this and that. Yeah, I think this.
[00:38:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:17] Speaker A: For all these reasons, it can be so much easier to navigate these issues. But, you know, I guess because curiosity has come up as such an important theme for us today, I think that it's. I think I often do see feeling a bit easier for people to have that curiosity in the therapy space than it is in some situations in outside, in day to day lives. And I think I've experienced that when I go to therapy too. I find it more easier to approach things with curiosity for myself.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:38:42] Speaker A: Rather than in my day to day life sometimes when I'm just so wrapped up in everything going on. Everything going on? Yeah. Everything going on in life. Yeah.
[00:38:50] Speaker B: And I, I'm really glad you touched on that. You know, sometimes I, I also hear, come through the space of no, well, this is just the way someone is. And what I'm hearing from you as you kind of describe that, is that change is possible in spaces like ours.
[00:39:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:06] Speaker B: And I've seen that change firsthand myself and it's a beautiful thing to see. So again, you know, if you are needing support around any challenges, whether that be individually, relationally, you are someone living with ADHD or you're the neurotypical partner, not sure how to navigate things, come to safe place therapy and would become. We'd be able to help support you in that endeavor.
[00:39:29] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. We'd love to. We love doing it. Yeah, we love doing it. And we. Yeah, we. Absolutely. I, I am with you 100%. I've totally seen that change happen for people.
[00:39:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:41] Speaker A: And it's a beautiful thing to. It's a beautiful thing to witness. A beautiful thing to, to experience as well.
[00:39:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
Well, we're at time.
[00:39:50] Speaker A: We're at time.
We are.
[00:39:52] Speaker B: But this has been. This has been such a lovely.
Just pow wow of this. And this is a field I'm so passionate about.
I love working with Neurodiverse, folks. I work a lot with relationships, and it's just been so great hearing your insights, how you work, and I just resonated a lot with what you've said.
[00:40:13] Speaker A: So, yeah, great. Of course. Yeah. No, this was great. Thanks so much for kind of leading us through the space. I really enjoyed it. And, you know, we sort of have these chats every now and then, but it's great. I'll do it off screen. Off screen. We do.
But it's great to do it in a kind of really intentional way. And, yeah, hear a bit more about your experience, too, because I do more individual work. I used to do some relationship work as well, but I don't anymore, and now I'm just doing individual work. But, yeah, so great to hear more about the relationship space from you as well.
[00:40:44] Speaker B: Yeah. So thank you all for listening, and we hope that you enjoyed the video.
Safe place. Therapy is your safe place to talk Deuce Sick one.
