Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: Welcome, everyone, and thank you for coming along to a episode with safe place therapy, YouTube channel or podcast.
Today we're going to be talking about ADHD or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, and some of the kind of misinformation that's out there, debunking some of that, explaining kind of more about adhd, but also kind of what it's like in a counseling room for someone with ADHD and the different kind of presentations and issues that come up in a counseling space.
My name is Stuart Shen, and I am one of the owners of Safe Place Therapy, and I'm a mental health social worker.
So today we've got three guests on our episode who all kind of share different kind of unique experiences related to adhd, but have worked quite a lot in the area. So what we'll do first is I'll get each of you to introduce yourself, your title, and the pronouns that you like to use. So, Sarah, would you like to start off?
[00:01:12] Speaker C: I am Sara. I'm a psychologist here at Safeplace Therapy, and I use shide pronouns. Great.
[00:01:21] Speaker D: Hi, I'm Sophie. I'm a counsellor at Safeplace. And my pronouns are she, her.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Stephanie. I'm a provisional psychologist, and I use she, her.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: Great. And welcome along. Thanks for coming. So, as I said, we're talking about adhd, so would someone like to kind of explain what Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder is?
[00:01:48] Speaker D: Well, yeah, we did. When we were talking about this video, we talked about how there can be ways we talk about it in a kind of clinical way and then ways that we talk about it more, just as human beings talking to our clients about it.
But more clinically, ADHD usually involves things like trouble with concentration, restlessness or hyperactivity, inattentiveness. These are the kind of more clinical terms that we use. Problems with impulse control.
But then in practice, or how. How we see it or how we talk about it with people in real life might be more things like, you know, hyperactivity can be restlessness, which can be very obvious on the outside, or sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's very internal.
People can look very kind of jittery or they can be really spacey. It kind of plays out differently for each person.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think a lot of people get a little confused about the difference between ADD and adhd. So what are the differences there?
[00:02:59] Speaker A: So initially we were using two different terms. So we had add, which is just Attention Deficit Disorder, and adhd, which is Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. However, we've now combined them both into just ADHD as the clinical terminology. And this was because initially the inattentive type was separated into advanced and the hyperactive and impulsive type was adhd. But discovered it was just a lot easier, I think in the DSM to put it under one label. And that sort of makes, I think funding and things like that a lot easier and just the understanding of these to work a bit better. But generally now under ADHD you've got the inattentive type, the hyperactive type and the combined type, which is both.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: Okay. And I guess that kind of hints that there's been a history to this. Right. Like things have changed over time. I think things need to catch up a little bit more about understanding ADHD as a thing.
So, you know, back kind of 20, 30 years ago, a lot of people would just assumed, you know, young boy is bouncing around the classroom who can't sit still, who can't listen to directions, that's adhd. But everything else might be something different or if it doesn't look like that, you don't have adhd.
So there's some changes there, but I think lots of people get lost into to that, that box idea of, of this is it. And if you're not that, then you don't have adhd.
[00:04:36] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, that's so true. Yeah. There's so many people that flew under the radar that way because of how we thought of ADHD for a long time.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
And I think that there's quite a few like TikTok videos for instance, and kind of, you know, I hear lots of clients coming to me with their friends saying, you know, you can't have adhd, you work a full time job or you can' ADHD because you can sit still and you can, you look calm. Right. So therefore you don't have it.
Which kind of leads onto this bigger discussion of like an internal busyness. Right. So, so you don't have to be bouncing around the room and, and not able to sit still to have it. There could be lots of busy messiness going on internally that other people might not know about.
[00:05:28] Speaker C: And even with like other people not knowing it, it might be that, okay, maybe the general public or people you see at work or like your broader social circles might not be able to pick up on that. But sometimes, you know, it is like that people that we develop closer relationships with that maybe when you ask them about it, they may have been able to pick up on things or notice those more subtle signs like, yeah, maybe it looks like you're not always super present in conversations or sometimes it's like you interrupt me in subtle ways. You're not like, hey, I'm going to be super obvious about it, but maybe like touching people's things, there can be lots of little ways, I guess, that even the individual might not notice.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, just hitting pause there, Sarah. Do you want to answer that one again? It just froze a couple of times. So what was the question?
[00:06:21] Speaker A: Talking about how adhd. Nope, I lost it.
[00:06:24] Speaker B: That's okay. So, yeah, so internal busyness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So lots of people presume that ADHD is this external busyness of not able, not being able to sit still. And they might have friends saying, well, you don't have ADHD because you can get stuff done, you have a full time job.
But there's more and more understanding of like an internal busyness going on.
[00:06:50] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:06:51] Speaker C: And even with that internal busyness, sometimes when you get to know people a bit closer and not talking about colleagues at work or kind of your broader social circles, but maybe your closer friends, your partners, even with that internal presentation, if you talk to them about it, they may have picked up on things that you, or maybe people in the broader social circles might not have noticed. Maybe things like, yeah, when I'm talking to you, it doesn't always look like you're paying attention completely. And then in the individual they might think, oh yeah, because I noticed my brain feels like it's in a million different places at once. And sometimes I don't even realize that I've zoned out until I come back to the conversation and I'm like, wait, what are we even talking about? So there's all these different ways that it can show up.
[00:07:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and therefore, I guess counseling or talking through ADHD needs to be quite nuanced. Right. So there's the individual experience of what is, what is your brain like? You know, is it is particularly messy? Is there lots of tools and things, you know, need to kind of remind yourself and you know, reminders in your phone or post it notes etc, to literally get through the day.
What, what's that? Like might show a lot more signs that maybe you're not even aware of.
[00:08:14] Speaker A: Yeah, this sort of one of the big things that I enjoy. When somebody's coming in and they're querying adhd, you sort of ask them generally around, how is your organization? And they're like, oh, you know, it's good, I've got it down pat. I've got my calendars, I've got my alarm set, I've got it all worked out.
And then you have to go, well, okay, so you're getting places. But that sounds like that's a learned trait. That sounds like you've implemented a lot of strategies to make this work for you. So if we take that back, what.
[00:08:51] Speaker E: Were you like before then?
[00:08:52] Speaker A: Was it difficult before that point and that you've had to come into this and really structure things around you to make this work?
Usually we get to this point where we're like, no, I've accomplished this. I have, you know, overcome something. That's not a problem for me. When really the fact that we've had to work so hard to overcome something is evidence that we've been struggling.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And then that might be their kind of work thing that they do to make sure, you know, things are being done and, and what have you. As soon as they get home, they're kind of crashing in bed or they need to make sure that they have a really quick meal because their energy is drained and it's just all downhill from there.
[00:09:38] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, that's it. It's like amazing that you might be able to keep all of this up, but how much energy is it taking you? What is it cost to keep?
[00:09:48] Speaker C: And that can be so hidden as well. Like, that can be such a secret experience for some people where they look so like high functioning in their work setting, in their friendship, they're like, yep, that person has it all under control. But then like you guys were saying, they go home, they're exhausted, they crash, they can't keep up with like self care stuff with like life admin stuff, with keeping up with their own health. And that all falls by the wayside.
[00:10:15] Speaker B: Yeah. So I guess the usual experience or the usual thing that we as counselors see is someone coming to counseling with maybe the idea, the big question mark, do I have adhd? Or you're noticing some symptoms and kind of start talking through that with them. I'm wondering what are the first steps we do as counselors when we first notice that or a client brings that up to you? What are the kind of first steps there?
[00:10:50] Speaker A: I always like to sort of examine, especially if they've come to us with these concerns, what they're bringing in, where these concerns have come from, what they've noticed, whether there's a family history or if it's just someone that's come in for something completely unrelated. And I'm noticing some things in session.
[00:11:08] Speaker E: Maybe it's.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: We're talking about one thing, but the tangents but, you know, getting further and further away and we have to keep redirecting, like, whether we're fidgeting so much or even getting up in the space and, you know, looking at things, grabbing different things, then it's sort of a bit of a conversation around. Have you had anyone in your family that is neurodivergent? Do you know what that means?
Have you ever considered that for yourself?
And sometimes, you know, our clients aren't ready to broach that. They're not ready to go into that sort of headspace and consider that. And that's perfectly okay. If you're not ready, we're not going there. But if it is something that you do, they've been like, oh, yeah, you know, I did have that one teacher that said, you know, we should look into that, or all of my school reports said that, you know, I need to try harder and I'd be so good if I just applied myself. You know, if we've got some of those further indicators, then, yeah, let's start looking into it. Let's see what else there is and how we can support you with that and, you know, whether there are strategies that we can help you implement to make things work a bit better.
[00:12:17] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, that's it. I think that's. Yeah, very much so. Getting that picture of what's brought them there, what's made them wonder, and history as well.
And I think also looking at all those kind of major domains of life, like, how are you taking care of yourself at home? What kind of functioning are you doing or not doing out in the outside world? And what does it take if you are, like we said before, what is it taking to keep that up? Relationships, how are they going? What is it like keeping up with them? Like all these kind of major areas of life, just looking at them and seeing how they're going and where the struggles are and whether they might be related to ADHD.
[00:12:55] Speaker B: Yeah, because I guess, too, with most counseling, 98% is, I have a dilemma, right? Like, I'm in a new job and I can't complete my task, or, you know, I'm in a relationship and we keep butting heads, or I shut down, I go internal, and there's this messiness going on that I can't explain or I can't put words to. And often people do get super surprised about an ADHD idea or concept because they've got through it, they survived, they've gone through uni, they've gone through school, they've done whatever, but they've reached this kind of fork in the road, I suppose all this, this issue that they can't really push past or all their normal tools aren't working anymore.
[00:13:44] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, it's so true. And I think a lot of people can struggle a lot when they reach that kind of limit and have some, maybe some shame or just negative feelings that come up around. This used to be easy for me. I've been able to get through this before. Why? Why am I struggling so much more now?
[00:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah, especially.
[00:14:07] Speaker C: I think sometimes when they do get to that point where they come to counseling and there is that fork in the road. And then maybe like when the counselor brings up the possibility of adhd, sometimes they're even relieved because they're like, yeah, this is something that has always crossed my mind throughout my life or for the last few years. But I've always thought, okay, I've been able to get by in all these other areas. But then this area has been the breaking point. And then they're like, okay, cool, maybe it is this. There's some validation there as well.
[00:14:37] Speaker A: A lot of people come into the therapy setting when they've reached that burnout point. Like they've been progressing, it's been tough, but they've been managing. And now they're at a point where they just can't hide it anymore. They're absolutely falling apart. They have no energy. And it sort of comes to this sort of therapy setting where they've arrived and they're just like, everything's horrible and I can't do anything, I'm exhausted, I'm depressed. And that's where you get a lot of the sort of misdiagnoses because what you're presented with is someone that can't motivate themselves and feels terrible.
So it's sort of working with those individuals of, okay, what's been happening?
How burnt out are we? What have we been doing? How much has, you know, how much energy has that taken? What does that cost?
And helping validate that, that has been a lot. You know, you've gone through a lot, you have spent a lot of your energy and your reserves are empty. And now we need to have some time to recover and to work on our self care.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good point. I think there's a shame element to comparing themselves with friends or I know that that person is five times busier than me and they still get all their stuff done, but I, I go home with half of that load and I doubt there must be something wrong with me, I must be dumb I must be lazy and, and normalizing this idea that all brains are different.
And even, even to that end, sometimes it's better to really understand your experience and what's going on for you. And I guess there's two parts of normalizing. There's the normalizing of h. Something's going on here that we need to maybe normalize as. As a thing that other people experience as well.
[00:16:22] Speaker E: Or.
[00:16:23] Speaker B: But also the other side is this is different. Like, it's okay, you're okay, you know, you're not crazy. There's not something really, really horrible wrong here, but there's something here that's different. That might explain the drain, that might explain why it's so tricky for you. So I guess going back to our kind of history of ADHD over time, I'm guessing there has been quite a bit of a development on it's not just little white boys who have adhd. Like, there's a bigger exploration now of neurodiversity and different brains and, and that kind of thing. So someone's come along with the idea of having ADHD or they're diagnosed or thinking about that process. What are some initial problems they might be raising when they say they have adhd?
[00:17:17] Speaker C: I guess it looks different areas.
Some of them might be work related. So whether that's completing tasks at work, managing like their energy levels throughout the day, where they might feel like they're in these modes where they'll get so much work done but then have a period of time where they can't do anything at all and there's a big crash.
There's like the social element of work as well, where maybe their energy is being pulled in different directions and they're like, cool. I can prioritize the work stuff, but means that the relationships are struggling.
School, of course, depending with school or uni, similar stuff with deadlines and schedules and procrastination. Procrastination's a big one where they find that, yep, I can be so enchanted and like so interested and want to spend all my time on things that I actually enjoy, but why can't I do it with these uni assignments? It must be that I'm just lazy or. And then same with relationships, I think we kind of touched on earlier where whether that's like partner relationships, where they might feel like there's arguments or things happening about maybe the level of attention they guys can give each other.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: I. I guess one other concern lots of ADHD peeps do have is the actual counseling process. Sitting in front of someone who's eyeballing you? And there's a whole, you know, 50 minute session and sitting in the one spot, like what are some of the kind of tweaking that we do to help that be more comfortable, to make it a bit more neurodiverse friendly.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: I love this because I have ADHD and I love being open about having ADHD as a therapist. So it's one of the first things I tell people. Just so you know, I have adhd, bad at eye contact, I fidget, all of these kinds of things. And we're also validating that kind of thing in our clients. So in every room here we have fidget toys, especially in this room down the end, we've got a. Essentially like a little foam mat. I've got clients that will sit on the floor and I'll sit on the floor with them. Some I even. I've had a client that just wanted to lie on their back and stare at the ceiling and it felt very Freudian, but it worked for them. You know, we can change the light, we can add things. So there's also art therapy or just, you know, the equipment to do drawing, to fidget, to play with things. Got sand trays around, you've even got plush toys. As you can see some behind us. You just need something to absolutely squish or if you're feeling pretty miserable and you kind of want to throw something somewhere. So we've got a lot of options and the biggest thing is we want to validate their experience.
And if eye contact or bright lights don't work for you, let us know because we can be very flexible with that and we're more than, more than happy to do that.
[00:20:16] Speaker D: Yeah, that's it. A lot of freedom around of how you use the room and how you kind of hold your body in the room. I think super important that we think about a lot here and also just little. I have agreements with some of my clients. Things like, do you, if we go off on a tangent, do you want me to bring us back or do you want me to go on the tangent with you? You know, and sometimes it'll be a preset agreement and that's. Other times I'll just jump in and be like, do we want to keep going down this track or do you want to go back to what we were talking about before?
I have some clients who like time warnings to know how much time has passed and how much time is left because they have difficulty sensing time themselves and so they just have no idea happen with adhd.
And things like, I have one client where we set an agenda at the start of the session because they know that they just tend to go on so many tangents, want to talk about so many things, but they have this thing they really want to talk about today. So we set that at the beginning, and if we veer off track too much, we can go back to it.
Because something that I know, I've heard a lot about from clients is telling me that in previous experiences of therapy, they feel like they go on the tangents too much and don't get what they wanted out of the sessions.
And so these kind of little strategies can help you actually get what you want from the session and not get lost.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: Yeah, that's like a great point as well. I have a couple clients that will email me ahead of time what their agenda is, because if they write it down somewhere, they'll lose it others. They have books that they bring in with them where they've written down what's bothered them. So there's a lot of ways. And then in the room, I've got a whiteboard as well. So we write it down so it's visibly there in front of us, this thing that we do want to talk about. So we've got a very visual reminder of. Oh, wait, the thing we were going to talk about. Yeah, let's get back to that one. It's very helpful.
[00:22:09] Speaker C: These are all just, like, great examples of kind of reflecting that doesn't have to look the way we think it does. And sometimes the therapy room can be a starting point of people actually challenging all those expectations of how things are supposed to be. Like, okay, maybe our communication doesn't have to look like this. And this is their opportunity to practice it looking differently. And maybe their body movement, like, checking into their body, means that, yeah, I am a bit more restless or maybe in this kind of movement feels good to me. And that's them maybe actually noticing it for the first time. So it's just a good opportunity in that way to. To work out what works.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I think that that should work with any kind of counselor, with any kind of client, quite frankly, that there needs to be a pivot sometimes, or if we notice a struggle that we don't. We don't just kind of push that client through that and. And force that to. To work. There's, you know, why not press pause and grab water? Why not, you know, lay on the floor or play with something or. Or go on a tangent and talk about, you know, music for a bit like that. That should be okay to help things flow and help things move. Yeah.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: And I've got a client as well that just loves to. When they're getting a bit overwhelmed, say, need a break, let's talk about whatever thing they've done recently or some cool thing they've seen. And we just kind of geek out about stuff for like five minutes and then we return it. Like, how are we feeling? You want to go back to it?
[00:23:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Okay, I'm ready.
[00:23:40] Speaker B: Nice.
[00:23:41] Speaker A: And it works?
[00:23:42] Speaker B: Yep, yep.
I guess back to your point, Sarah, that, that being faced with that stuckness or rigidity in society or expectations kind of really takes us back to the idea that maybe some people have heard of, which is called rejection sensitivity. This idea of, you know, little Johnny or Betty or Susie sitting in a classroom and they're. You're listening to teacher. They got a classroom full of other students and they're trying to pay attention, they're trying to understand, but they're not soaking it up. It's very difficult for them to focus their attention. And so they're looking around, seeing all the other classmates doing what they need to do, reading and being quiet. But meanwhile they know, crap, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't understand what the task is. Everyone else is being good and doing what they need to, but I'm freaking out. So then there's this overcompensation, so they might push themselves to read five chapters rather than two.
And then there's this real worry or shame where it's am I silly, am I dumb, am I lazy?
And constantly then worrying about how other people see them.
So then in that counseling environment, if counsellors, you know, kind of forcing these rules, we're kind of doubling down on that shame and doubling down on that, you know, that continual experience. A lot neurodiverse people, ADHD people go through.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: Yeah, so true.
[00:25:20] Speaker D: Yeah, it's all really good points about how this is. Just like you said before, this is how counseling should be. It should be really adapted to the client. And I think just another good example of how accessibility is good for everyone. Like if we make it more accessible to people who need more accessibility, it actually benefits everyone else as well.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, totally.
I think that's a nice little segue into what's called intersectionalities.
So people who might realize that they have an identity of being queer. Right. So they're going through school, they realize that, you know, they have certain feelings and have a kind of sexual identity. Interestingly, a lot of what Happens for a lot of young people is they might. They might realize they have ADHD as well, or they might realize that there's something else going on, but they kind of push that or squash that back because, you know, they want to come out to their family or there's a more pressing issue going on there.
And a lot of people who have ADHD also identify as being queer. It's not always the case, but there's a lot of overlap, sometimes related to shame, related to different identities. And it becomes such a complex thing, right, in terms of what people go through, what they focus on, what they have the bandwidth to focus on, but they struggle as well. Yeah, definitely.
[00:26:54] Speaker C: And it kind of taps into the concept of masking, masking our identity, where, you know, a lot of queer people, whether they know it or not, until they get to a point where they're like, yeah, I've been masking all these elements of my queerness. And then sometimes as they get to know themselves a bit more, they realize, yeah, I've also been struggling with this as well, adhd. And yeah, it can just be. It can be confronting where it's like get all of these things suddenly that I'm realizing about myself that I've been over, compensating with, to get by. But it's, it's a step of now we know. Let's support you around that.
[00:27:30] Speaker D: Yeah, it's so true. It can be the layers of. Layers of ourselves that we uncover over time. Sometimes we have. We can't do it all at once. And so there can be this kind of unraveling, whether it's, yeah, queerness moving into ADHD or ADHD moving into queerness, I think, or one kind of queerness. Oh, sorry. One kind of neurodiversity then unraveling another kind of neurodiversity that you have.
I think that, yeah, all these different intersections of who we are can, can feed into each other and overlap, but supporting one usually does support others too.
[00:28:07] Speaker E: I love neurodiversity to start with. It is more of a social model away from the medical model. So the medical model is, this is what's wrong with you. These are all your deficits. This is our criteria for diagnosis of whatever condition. And it's always are so negative. And then the social models and neurodiversity has come in and gone, well, actually, how about we stop looking at this as a negative? Because not everything is.
And ADHD and autism as well are a great example because it is a different nervous system. So this isn't something you can get rid of. You can't cure us of this. It's something that is physically part of our bodies. It's a different way that we interact with the world, with our senses, so it's part of us. And the neurodiversity movement is more around. Okay, let's recognize that we have these differences, whether it is just adhd, just autism, or additional things, because it depends on where you're looking to see how big the umbrella gets. But generally it is assumed to be a difference in the mind, in the nervous system. So it could include things like MS, because that involves lesions. It could include things like epilepsy, where you're having seizures.
Sometimes people include depression, and sometimes they argue not to. So it can get a bit funny depending on whether we're going with environmental or physical brain changes.
But generally within that, the idea is there are so many different brains.
And just because there's a difference doesn't mean that it's wrong, doesn't mean that it's a deficit.
And one of the best ways that I've seen this explained was from Kieran Rose, who does. He's the autistic advocate and he's amazing on his own, if you are ever interested. But he explained it in the sense of think about trees.
How many different types of trees do you know of or could you identify on site as being different to that other one and think about why that is?
Clearly, there's an evolutionary advantage to having such variety because different trees will work better in different settings, in different climates. They produce different things that get picked up by different creatures. There's such a range of diversity within trees, and it's amazing because of that. We've got trees that can exist pretty much the entire world. And some of them we can even put in our houses, and they're cool and we can decorate them for Christmas. I'm going on a tangent.
Diversity is amazing. So if we consider trees as being such a diverse thing, why did we never consider that people and brains could also be diverse when we were researching this, you know, decades ago, initially, even way back at the very origins of the dsm, why couldn't we sit there and think, hey, maybe some people are just different? Why did we get on this sort of idea of we have to pathologize and put people in these boxes and say that they are wrong?
So that's sort of part of my understanding, at least of the social model that is neurodiversity.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: And, yeah, that. That kind of also highlights the. The Movement towards this idea that we, we are all different and. But there's also some kind of power elements to ADHD or neurodiversity that I don't think people are aware of for themselves.
You know, the, the sense of creativity, the freedom of thought that lots of people have where, you know, they can brainstorm and connect things that maybe other neurotypical people don't connect, but it really can speed processes up. It's not just about, you know, you're too silly or, or you can't do stuff. There's actually a lot of. You can do really cool things with your brain.
[00:32:18] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like the idea of linear versus lateral thinking, which is one example I really like. So you would think you were talking about lateral thinking there, Stu, where a person without ADHD might think in a more what we call linear way. So kind of one thought lead, kind of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. A, B, C, D. There's kind of more of that through line through it, which is very useful in its own way. But with ADHD there is more tendency towards lateral thinking. So instead of things kind of working in a line, things are a bit more like in this one and this one and that one and that one over here. That's why tangents happen. Yes.
But, yeah, that can be so useful with things like problem solving and coming up with new solutions for things. Creativity and coming up with ideas and even empathy and understanding them things from different angles. You know, it can actually be so useful in so many different ways. Ways and so many other examples. We could talk about this for ages, but so many, so many advantages to having an ADHD nervous system.
[00:33:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And. And I guess back to the therapy setting that, you know, it's definitely part of someone's journey with ADHD is moving from that shame idea or debunking some of that. You know, I'm lazy, I'm dumb, I'm silly, I'm not capable to maybe celebrating. Right. Like, you know, not everyone gets there, but there's. I think there is a real journey that of acceptance of this idea that, you know, I'm not broken, I'm not crazy.
[00:33:53] Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. You just are who you are.
That's it. Similar with, with like we were saying before, kind of owning other parts of your identity. Same thing.
And also with the idea of diversity being good for us. Again, same with other, other parts of our identity. It's good to have people with different brains, good to have people with different sexualities, different genders, different cultural backgrounds. All that is good for us.
[00:34:19] Speaker B: So with. With people watching this or. Or maybe having a family member that they might think might have adhd, what is the process of diagnosis? What are the kind of steps involved for an adult and a child?
[00:34:33] Speaker C: I guess for an adult, there's different routes you can go down, depending on whether or not you are interested in medication.
Stimulant medication for adhd, generally, you'd start with a GP referral and to a psychiatrist. That's if you are looking for a medication route. Once you have an appointment with a psychiatrist, they'll have a few sessions with you, get to know a little bit about why your experiences, you feel, are correlating with an ADHD diagnosis. And generally they can go from there. So they might come up with a report afterwards and say, yep, meeting ADHD criteria or not. If medication is not necessarily something you want to pursue, or maybe you're wanting to spend a bit longer on this journey of trying to unpack, you know, is it adhd? Is it something else? What parts of it are early life experiences? There can be a lot of overlap. Then you can just start with your counsellor, you can see a therapist and they can kind of go through whether it's an assessment, interview or kind of just having a conversation around it and seeing whether it does feel like a diagnosis that would fit.
And then, like, there can be a diagnosis that comes from that. It just means that you won't be able to access medication. So there's, I guess, pros and cons of both. It can be more in depth to.
[00:36:00] Speaker E: See a psychologist, definitely, as well. A prohibitive kind of cost, unfortunately, with accessing psychiatry. So that's where often we'll get. People come in and it's sort of like this check in, like, hey, I'm kind of thinking about adhd, but I just want to double check, like, is this worth me seeing somebody else? Is it worth me spending that money? And often they don't realize that a lot of psychologists can also do that assessment. But it does mean that if they're. If they want to access medication they might need, they might get a psychiatrist that wants to double check that and run an assessment again.
[00:36:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, and I think that's a good point, that any experienced counselor with ADHD can do a lot of exploring about your brain, what's happening in your brain, your experience of potential ADHD that's going on, and really give you some tools and tips to start to work through that even before a diagnosis, even before ticking the box, starting medication. And lots and lots of people actually decide not to go down the diagnosis route because of medication, because, you know, it's, it's too costly. And they might not even decide to take ADHD medication down the track too, because there might be side effects or, or it doesn't work for them and their, you know, their, their, their bodies, their brains.
So there's a lot of experience of adhd, but also what works and what's helpful for different folk. And then, so what about a child, sort of family struggling and young person, what's the process there?
[00:37:36] Speaker E: The child could be taken to a pediatrician, and then from there, the pediatrician themselves might have experience running ADHD assessments, or they can refer to a child psychiatrist who can run the assessment. Occasionally in schools, you might get a school sort of psychologist or counselor that can do that assessment as well. But generally the pediatrician will have somebody available, whether it's themselves or will know where to go for that.
[00:38:00] Speaker B: I think lots of people also get disheartened, too, about the, the medical system. Like, you know, they maybe tried a diagnosis before through a psychiatrist and they've been pushed back, or maybe they've been to a counselor who they just, and they just say, ah, you just got depression, you're fine, you're, you know, you've gone through uni, you're able to hold down a job, so you can't have adhd. Again, back to what we were talking about before that.
If a label. This is kind of what I say with all my clients. If a label or some symptomology is helpful to conceptualize things and helps you through your life, great, let's use it. But if it's actually not helpful, and it's actually better to pick a few traits or pick a few things that, you know, happens for your brain, and we start there, that's also okay. We don't have to stamp that they belong.
[00:38:57] Speaker E: And that's where for a lot of our new clients that come in, because there's so much more awareness of adhd, people are becoming aware that it's something that they might have later in life. And also because of the difficulties faced for a lot of women, people of color, a lot of the science early on really did focus on, you know, young white boys. So our criteria suits that population. It doesn't suit adults. It doesn't suit women or people assigned female at birth. There's a huge population that it just has missed. So that's where we're getting all of these additional diagnoses in adulthood. And the sometimes hysteria around, oh, no, everybody's Got adhd. Now, for all these people that are diagnosed later in life, sometimes that label is a huge relief because it tells them, oh, you know, as you're saying, I'm not lazy, I'm not a terrible person, I'm not at my job. Sometimes people find labels to be too overwhelming and they're just not suitable for them. And that's perfectly okay.
[00:40:03] Speaker B: So we have spent a lot of time today talking about debunking some of those misconceptions of adhd.
A lot of people feeling shut down because their friends said, oh, you don't have adhd, because blah.
I guess a really big main message that I'm taking away is ADHD is a broad set of symptoms, a broad set of experiences that people have. And there's no kind of one size, size fits all. It can be quite diverse and, and brains can be diverse as well. So that's. That's really cool. And I guess the real key point is if you are struggling, struggling with a work scenario or, or getting through things and it doesn't feel like what you're doing is, is helping or, or you feel at a loss, you feel stuck, access some help because there might be an actual issue, a neurodiverse issue going on, or it actually might better line up with other things that is also very able to be talked through in a counseling setting.
[00:41:15] Speaker E: And just in terms of difficulty accessing diagnosis, that's something that's happened to so many of my clients, but also myself, my male partner diagnosed in one session with a psychiatrist for myself, who frankly exhibited a lot more symptoms.
I had three different psychiatrists, and they. The first two each went, oh, this is so, so totally adhd. But then they'd see my school reports where I was trying very hard to be a teacher's pet because I was overcompensating.
And once they saw that, immediately it was like, nope, nope, you did good at school. Has to be depression.
It was only when we got to the third psychiatrist where he's like, oh, no, we understand now that this can happen. You know, you can do well at school, but it doesn't rule out adhd. You're still struggling. You still have adhd. So it was very frustrating for me to go through that process. But then the relief of finally having someone that understood was just immense and validating because again, when it comes to labels, that basically it felt like that gave me permission to recognize that all of my difficulties weren't a personal me problem. They're not me being a terrible, shitty person that just can't sit down and do the thing. It's a legitimate struggle with motivation or with too much attention that we get distracted all the time. They're real issues and they are so frustrating. Even though a lot of us do hide it with humor and do laugh a lot of it off, it's so difficult and so much shame as well. So I think even having a space where you can come in and just talk to somebody about it would be just immensely helpful and hopefully a huge relief just like it was for myself. So I'd really encourage everyone to come in if that's something that you're looking at or you've been thinking in the back of your head, maybe this isn't just me.
[00:43:20] Speaker B: I think it's also really helpful and thank all of you for contributing to this because I think having our knowledge of. Of counseling in the counseling space, but also the. The kind of experience related to ADHD really adds value for clients to go. This is what I actually need in a counseling space. Right. And actually naming that is super helpful. And I want everyone to, to hear this, that it's okay for a room to be fl flexible and creative and, and dynamic for clients needs. But also you need support. Right? And. And that doesn't mean you're silly. It doesn't mean you're lazy. That doesn't mean there's something incredibly wrong. It just means you might need some support in a. In a way that's. That's helpful to you. That's individualized. Yeah. Cool.
So if. If anyone watching this or listening to our podcast would like to know more about Safe Place Therapy, watch some more videos. We have a link to our website in the comment section below. There's oodles of information on our website. Please be careful with Googling. Please reach out for professional help if you are wanting to explore this further and our team is happy to help.
Please forward any comments you have or pass this to a friend if you think they might need it to listen about us and how we work. But thank you all and bye for now.
