Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:06] Speaker B: So welcome, everyone. Today we're doing an episode on eating disorders and the kind of general topic of people reaching out for issues related to disordered eating or eating disorders. And we'll get into the kind of terminal terminology a bit further. But we have with us today Adam Hamoud, who is a mental health social worker and is working with safeplace therapy. So thanks for joining us, Adam.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Pleasure, thank you.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Yeah, so I'm just, maybe as a good starting point, what, what is kind of interesting for you working with people who present with kind of eating disorders and, and come to a session with, with that problem?
[00:00:53] Speaker A: I, I really enjoy working with people with eating disorders.
I feel like society in general, there's such a huge stigma when they find out about someone with an eating disorder, for example, anorexia or bulimia.
And I think, unfortunately, that stigma can sometimes also get transferred amongst health professionals as well. So I really do, I really do feel like it's a privilege to work with people with eating disorders because I know how hard it must be for people to reach out and to open up.
And one of my, in, in one of my past jobs in the public mental health hospital system, I had a client who had a severe eating disorder and I was able to work with her for over five years and it really taught me a lot about the system, the eating disorder system, the mental health system and how best to help people with eating disorders. And ever since then, I've been working with different people, you know, with different levels of severity and complexity, but I really do feel like it's a special area to work in.
Yeah, so it's, it's an interest of mine. Yeah, that's great.
[00:02:25] Speaker B: And I'm wondering when a client first comes to you and, and reveals to you that they have an eating disorder, what are some, maybe the common problems that are, are attached to that problem when they first start talking to you about it in, in session number one.
[00:02:43] Speaker A: Yeah. So I, I think with, with the clients that I see the eating. So the disordered eating or the eating disorder, it can present itself in a few different ways. So sometimes we might receive a referral from a GP or a doctor, and the reason for the referral is listed as eating disorder. So when we receive referrals such as that, we know from the get go that that's the primary topic of the treatment and that's the focus for us to work on.
On the other hand, sometimes we might get clients who, they present with more general mental health type of issues like depression, anxiety, or it could be Stress or relationship issues or work issues or whatever, whatever it might be.
And sometimes it might not get disclosed in the first session. Sometimes after you build that relationship with the client and they sort of build trust in you a little bit and feel a bit more comfortable, then they might disclose later on that, you know, they do struggle with food or, you know, whether they might be restricting or maybe they're struggling with other type of behaviors.
So. Yeah, but I think in either scenario, though, it's really, really important for the therapist to ask a lot of questions because.
And I know from the client's perspective, it might feel a bit overwhelming, but it really is important or the professional to try to figure out exactly what's going on, because sometimes at face value, we might not understand.
You know, someone could be, you know, sometimes an eating disorder is not super obvious. You know, sometimes if someone is, you know, very, very thin or has a very low body mass index and, and looks malnourished, it. Sometimes it's. It's not. And to be honest, most of the time, it's not that straightforward. Most of the time we see people that look, you know, I don't like to use this word, but like normal weight, you know, they look relatively healthy through the naked eye. So. So it's really important to find out what people's eating patterns are, you know, how much they exercise, do they engage in other types of behaviors that we call, like compensatory behaviors. So purging, for example, or using laxatives or intentionally vomiting or going on really, really, really strict diets. And then unfortunately, getting into that vicious cycle of restricting, binging, feeling really disgusted in yourself, and then promising the next day you're going to do it. Right? And then, yeah, some people get really stuck in those cycles. So. But. But it is really important to the first session, at least just to have a proper assessment and ask a lot of questions to figure out what's going on.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: You're hinting at. At something really important there, Adam, which I think is the client's relationship with food. Right? So up with the food, any food.
How do they react? You know, how do they engage with food? You know, how often they're eating? You know, do they have lots of thoughts and lots of planning related to eating sessions.
Really open up the door to, you know, does that person have a poor relationship with food? Like, you know, just pack the diagnosis for a sec. Does that person, any. Any client have a difficult relationship with. With food that needs to be talked through and right up to the other end of. Yes, there's a diagnosable eating disorder here.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. That's. That, that's so true. Because we know that there's on one end of the spectrum there is diagnosable conditions and then on the other side of the spectrum there are people that, like you said, their relationship with food is probably not the healthiest.
A lot of people use food as a coping tool to deal with very difficult emotions or if something really stressful happens in someone's life, like a fight with someone or an argument or a breakup. Often food is used to sort of like self soothe, you know, like, especially. I know, and I'm specifically speaking about those, you know, those quote unquote comfort foods like ice cream, chocolates and cookies and those types of things. So, yeah, so. And that's, I guess that's the difference, isn't it? Like disordered eating is not a mental illness. It's different types of behaviors that might not be ideal but might not meet the full criteria for a specific condition versus a diagnosable condition. Yeah.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: And yeah, I think some people get lost into the idea of I don't have a diagnosis, so therefore I don't need help. Which, you know, isn't true. There's, there's so many different experiences of mental health. You know, take, take grief. Right. So grief of, of losing a parent or losing a loved one. We all kind of face these struggles that might need a third party or professional to kind of help talk about what's, what's normal in that process.
You know, kind of helpful tips and tricks that might help us think differently about that or even just express what's going on to, to get through it in a better way.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, and that's, that's a good analogy. And I also like to talk to people about thinking about disordered eating and eating disorders, but almost from an addictions lens, you know, like, for example, we also, we also at Safe Place, we get a lot of people who have issues with drug and alcohol abuse.
Sometimes they might willingly tell us, you know, that they have a problem with this and sometimes maybe they've been convinced or pressured by a loved one to come. Now some people might minimize and they might say, look, yeah, I drink from time to time, but it's not really a problem. I'm not addicted. I don't need alcohol to function. But, but yeah, you might not be addicted as such. But if you're, for example, every Friday night getting really drunk and coming home late and having arguments with your, you know, your partner and getting involved in Fights and like there's different levels to these things, isn't there? So it's really.
Sometimes I like to talk to clients about eating or disordered eating or eating disorders, but from sort of like an addictions lens as well, you know.
[00:10:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And what is that disordered eating or what does that. I call it the real estate. So the amount of time and energy that your brain is going into thinking about food and restricting or binging and such, what is that getting in the way of, Is it getting in the way of a healthy relationship? And because I think a lot of eating disorders is quite secretive, people might not actually really know what's going on or the rule book or how much time, energy you're putting into getting through the day without eating or, or, or skipping meals, etc.
[00:11:12] Speaker A: Yeah, and when you said that, the real estate, it made me think of this really cool diagram that I saw when I was doing some training a few years ago and they were talking about a pie chart. So for example, for a typical brain now the pie chart might get made up of family relationship, study, work, hobbies, interests, food, you know, it's quite balanced. Whereas with the eating disorder brain, a majority of the real estate is occupied by the food. And with some eating disorders there is an obsessional nature to them and that's one of the things about it. People really fixate and obsess and it really takes up a lot of your mental energy.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
And the stress that goes with that. Right, or the, or the beating yourself afterwards if you do slip up and you know, eat something.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And also like, you don't really give much time to anything else. Often, you know, your studies might get impacted, you're not performing well at work, relationship issues arise. It you're sort of, your life starts to revolve around food and to the detriment of a lot of other things that you know, you would typically value and want to maintain.
[00:12:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a really good segue into maybe stigma number one that a lot of people with eating disorders might face. And that is, it's a choice, get over it.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: Right?
[00:12:58] Speaker B: There's this clearly, clearly you got an issue, but you're choosing that, you're choosing not to eat, you're choosing to, you know, jump on a treadmill for, for two hours a day. Like that's your choice. So just stop it and everything will be fine.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: And, and often that, that notion of it's a choice, it's really tricky because you know, people often will get told by their family Just get over yourself. Just eat it. It's not a big deal. Why are you being so difficult for, like, people. People get told off, you know, because there's a notion that, no, this is a choice. You know, you can control this.
But unfortunately, it's not a choice. If it was a choice, it would be so easy to.
To stop it.
But it is, it is. Unfortunately, it is a mental illness ultimately.
And similar to anxiety, for example, you know, someone with anxiety might have really catastrophic thinking styles, all or nothing thinking styles, thinking in very black and white terms.
And it's. If someone has severe anxiety, simply telling them, oh, don't stress about it. It's nothing. That's not gonna help them, you know. You know, if you're really stressed about something and someone tells you, I'll relax, that's gonna probably make you more. More stressed. And similar with eating disorders, because people with a lot of eating disorders, it sort of takes over you.
It. You know, there's a lot of people describe it as like a monster within or, you know, there's a part of me that knows the logic behind everything, but then the. There's the eating disorder part of me that is really worried about, you know, if I eat this, I'm gonna gain so much weight, or I. I'm not lovable if I'm, you know, if I don't weigh under a certain, you know, weight or. And it's not as simple as.
Yeah, it's not that simple because, you know, these. These beliefs are really ingrained in. In one's mind. And it takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of, you know, therapy takes a lot of challenging experimentation, exposure.
So, yeah, it's not as simple as. Yeah, just get over it.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so. So let's pretend. Yeah. A client has first come to you and expressed and you've done that initial assess eating disorders. What are some key things that you'd like that client to walk away with after revealing that information and revealing that really yucky issue?
[00:15:59] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really good question, because a lot of people feel really nervous to talk about it, especially for the first time.
And what I would want the client to walk away from the first session is a sense of hope.
Because we know that with eating disorders, sometimes they can be quite challenging to overcome.
And, you know, usually people aren't presenting right at the beginning of developing this disorder. It's usually been happening for quite a while. And then. So it's really important to.
And what I try to do is tell people that you know, it's definitely possible to, to recover from an eating disorder. And we, I'm here to help you along the way, but I also do need to be realistic with them and not give them unrealistic expectations because the, the difference between counseling for eating disorders versus counseling for like a general issue, it is quite different because when you're seeing a therapist for a general mental health issue, it is a very client centered approach. The client sort of leads the session and we help them along the way. And person centered care is paramount.
With eating disorders, we do, the therapist does have to adopt a empathic but firm stance.
And the thing about eating disorder treatment is it's not a passive treatment. The, it's very active. So a lot of the work, a lot of work happens in therapy, but a lot of the work happens outside of therapy as well. So there's a lot of behavioral changes that need to be adopted.
So it's not as simple as, yeah, you come talk to your therapist for one hour and then week you see them and then, yeah, it's gonna be all good. There's a lot of work that needs to happen outside of like at home, at work, you know, when you're hanging out with friends or so. Yeah, so I do.
But I talk to people about how, look, I understand it's not easy. You know, I'm not going to be harsh. You know, there's a difference between being very, there's a, there's a difference between being firm and being harsh, you know, because firm is.
You sort of need people to take an active role in their recovery and letting people know that the power is in their hands. But I'm not going to be a punitive person. I'm not going to tell people off if they didn't do my homework. But we will ask about what were the barriers, you know, why didn't you do it? You know, how can we increase the chance of you doing it next week type thing.
So that's, so that's a really important thing to talk about because it is, it's not. Yeah, it's not a very passive treatment. It is quite active.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And why would you say the firmness is needed, Adam? So kind of distinguishing from other forms of therapy related to mental health. Why. Why is it important for the therapist to be active and firm?
[00:19:43] Speaker A: Yeah, because with eating disorders depends on a person's readiness and level of motivation.
So sometimes we might get people who have been referred, but they don't believe they have a problem. They don't, they're not really that keen on addressing it.
And then later on, you know, sometimes people start to realize, okay, I do need to address this problem. I do need to start working on this. It's impacting my life too much. But, you know, I don't want to get too nitty gritty and jargonistic. But, you know, we have the stages of change model with pre contemplation. Contemplation, you know, and with eating disorders, people can shift from one stage to the next.
And the eating disorder is, in a way, it's serving a purpose for someone. You know, whether that's control, whether that's relief, whether that's comfort, like the eating disorder.
Everyone's different, obviously, but the eating disorder is serving a role. It's serving a purpose.
And when we try to treat someone for it, it's sort of like the eating disorder.
It sets off this panic system. It's sort of like, oh, you know, you need me. You. You can't live without me.
So the person can oscillate between, yes, I want to work on this, but then get really stressed about it, panicked about it. Have, you know, the eating disorder might play tricks on, you know, you by saying, look, it's not that bad. You know, so what, you skip a few meals, it's not that big of a deal.
So that's why the firmness is needed. Because if we left, if we remained passive, the eating disorder essentially would win. Like, we need to challenge the eating disorder, and we need to differentiate the eating disorder part of us versus the healthy part of us. And it's that constant tension, that battle.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: Within, which can be really difficult for some therapists who might not have had a lot of experience with eating disorders or people who have an eating disorder in terms of carving out that safety in the relationship to go, hey, you. You can. To me with this problem. And I need to kind of ask some challenging questions here, or I need to kind of say, hey, you're. You're. You're doing this thing. But we kind of talked about this thing, and that's a tricky thing to hold space for.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, you know, whenever you have a session with someone, it's always, you know, life happens, you know, and it's really important to devote some time for regular life things. But we still need to get back to the eating disorder because.
Because if we.
If we didn't do that, it would never get addressed, really.
It would.
It's. It. It's really tricky to stay on track, but it's really important to make a conscious effort to do that. And that's why the therapist role is so important. Because, you know, as a client, you often don't want to go to that dark place. You know, you. It's. It's easier to talk about whatever is happening in your life because, you know, they're, they're easier to talk about. Whereas if we remained in a supportive talk therapy type of state, the hour would get used up and before you know it, we haven't even touched on it again.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: And this kind of really taps into the, again the secrecy that goes on. Usually, you know, maybe not always, but usually there's elements of not sharing with other people about how bad it is, isolating themselves, doing this kind of narrative of everything is fine when it's not fine, but really having a professional who knows the signs of what's not good and what's not healthy and what is the kind of journey ahead for that person if they continue to, to do those unhealthy behaviors, just to kind a client on track and going in a certain way.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: So, yeah, so there's a nice segue here to really kind of delve a little bit more into different models of therapy that, that you think are good for eating disorders. Adam, what's the, the approach that you take with clients?
[00:25:15] Speaker A: Yeah, so there are different approaches out there, different models and evidence based modalities out there.
There is cbte, which is cognitive, so it's enhanced Cognitive Behavior therapy, which is like the regular cbt, but this is more focused on the eating disorder. So targeting the eating disorder, cognitions and behaviors. It's quite structured and it's quite, it's a, it's, it's a good model, actually.
But for people who don't want to have such a structured or rigid model, there's also sscm, which stands for specialist Supportive Clinical Management, which is a really flexible approach that combines eating disorder management with psychotherapy.
So it allows us to target the eating disorder, but it also gives us scope to address any other life problems that someone might be going through that could be connected to the eating disorder, but might not be. So, so I've done training in both CBT and sscm, and I feel like those two are quite good models that I enjoy using.
And then there are lots of other models out there as well. But I. There's one called mantra, there's one called fbt, but at the moment I'm focusing on those two. You know, sometimes you can get a bit, you can go a bit overboard with, you know, training in so many different Models.
[00:27:04] Speaker B: Totally. And I'm sure just having those two the would be quite a mix of tools that you can use and in that. That you can use with different client presentations.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: As we've been talking today, I guess I'm kind of thinking about who would be tuning into this episode. It could be a person themselves worrying that they might have an eating disorder and wanting to reach out for help. But it also might be a loved one who is concerned about a family member who they think might have an eating disorder.
And I don't think it's any surprise here to kind of share this concept of people with eating disorder having this really big defensive wall up, stopping, reaching out for help or even stopping the conversation to talk about. I have a problem like this. This is a natural problem for me. And a lot of that goes into the how an eating disorder mental issue starts. Right. There's this internal critic. There's this kind of internal stuff building and building and building that builds this idea that I have to restrict, I have to exercise religiously, etc, and I'm wondering, do you have any tips for a family member who might be worried about a loved one and what are some kind of chat discussions they can raise to kind of bypass the defensive wall?
[00:28:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think so. Because I, I like to.
With eating disorders, it's quite similar to addiction in a way, because there is a lot of secrecy and shame and defensiveness. But in addition to that, sometimes people might not acknowledge that they have a problem, you know, and we look at, you know, with eating disorders or addictions for that matter, there are different phases. You know, for example, them in the first phase is it could be along the lines of I don't have a problem, I don't think. Yeah, there's nothing to talk about, there's nothing wrong with me, I don't have a problem.
And then that could lead into, you know, I might have a problem. Yeah, but it's not that bad. It's under control. It's not affecting me.
That could lead into, look, I do have a problem, but whatever, I don't care, you know, it is what it is.
And then it could lead. That could lead into, you know, I want to change, but I don't know how. I'm scared, I don't know what to do. And then, and, and so forth and so on and so forth.
And for family members, it can be really, really tricky because if you think about it, if you try to bring something up with someone, you don't really Know how they're going to react. They might be very defensive, they might get angry, get upset, they might deny it and then that can leave you feeling very stuck. Where do I go from here? Yeah. There's a few things that I could talk about.
The first thing is for, for family members, I would definitely recommend getting in touch with eating disorder helplines. So I know in Victoria, I don't know if it's Australia wide actually, so I don't want to say if it's Australia wide, but at least in Victoria, there's the Butterfly foundation and they have a phone helpline for people with an eating disorder as well as family members or loved ones where they can get some really good emotional support advice and they can lead you in the right direction. So that is definitely a really good option.
But also as family members or loved ones, if you're thinking that you know someone you care about has an eating disorder or you're worried that it might be the case, you know, we wanna, we wanna start the conversation in a gentle way.
We want, we don't want someone to feel criticized or under attack because that naturally leads to defensiveness.
So we want a gentle conversation starter because we need to remember that the person with the eating disorder likely has a lot of shame associated with it and it can be very embarrassing or difficult to talk about. But if someone is not acknowledging that they might have a problem, what we could, what you could do is, what you could do is try to create a sense of ambivalence within them. So for example, if someone is not acknowledging that they have a problem or if they're acknowledging that they do have an eating disorder but they're denying that it's a problem, we call that pre contemplation. We. That, that, that is a stage of change where you don't think there's anything wrong with you. And in therapy, in therapy talk, what the therapist is, what the therapist needs to do is engage in motivational interviewing to try to create a sense of ambivalence in that person. To, to help them realize that.
Well, to help them get to a stage where they want to address the problem.
So for example, let's just say there is a 24 year old woman and her mom has tried to talk to her about it because she's worried about maybe, maybe mum has noticed that she's getting quite skinny, she's not eating much, her portion sizes are really small, but she's denying that there's a, there's a problem at all.
We know that some people with eating Disorders struggle with their, their periods. Maybe they don't have regular periods or maybe they haven't had a period in a long time. So maybe her mum could say to her, just curious, when have you had your period lately?
Or when was the last time you had your period?
Now if she's still having regular periods, then she can say, oh yeah, I just had it a few weeks ago. Why? And, but that could turn into a conversation starter. That and she, she could say possibly. Oh, why do you ask? And then Mum could say, well, you know, I just, just checking, just checking because sometimes when people restrict or they're not eating as much or you don't even have to use the eating disorder word because that can be quite, yeah. Triggering or that could set them off into defensiveness. But, but just the conversation about how sometimes restriction or excessive weight loss can affect, can delay a period or stop a woman from having her period and then could turn into a conversation about fertility, you know, especially if a woman has ambitions to have children one day. So, you know, this is just this, this is just to plant the seeds and to get people to realize that it might not be a problem now, but it can be a problem for your life moving forward. Yeah. Yep.
[00:35:34] Speaker B: And I guess there's an invitation there to come out of that tunnel that the brain, you know, we're making some guesses here, but if they do have an eating disorder, usually they're at like there's a tunnel going on that there's this very one track mind of I need to lose weight. If someone challenges me, they're wrong or they're the bad guy or they're not there to help me, that kind of thing. But opening their brain to what, what are the problems going on right now or could happen down the track for them to contemplate.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:36:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:11] Speaker A: Another example could be a young man who is going to, going to the gym quite frequently, but he might be working out really intensely, like extreme.
And we know with fitness and gym and working out, nutrition is really, really, really important because you want your muscles to recover, you want your body to recover.
And you know, maybe this hypothetical guy is going to the gym quite frequently but isn't noticing any gains.
And so, so that could even be a conversation starter about, you know, you've been going to the gym for six months now. How do you think your progress is going?
You know, so because really does affect many different aspects of your life. So if people can find little, you know, avenues to broach these topics that don't automatically start with I'M worried about your eating disorder or I'm worried that you might have an eating disorder because that will automatically set someone on defense mode.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And I guess if we think about therapy, let's kind of go to the drinking idea and, and the person feeling that they have to drink to get up, they have to drink to, to cope with work or cope with family or stress. And, you know, therapy or, or recovery is all about taking that actually away, which can be so scary. Right. So scary. I don't, I don't have anything else. Nothing. Nothing in my life feels stable or, or that I could go to for help, but I do.
So it's.
[00:38:06] Speaker A: And sorry to interrupt, but that one thing is the ultimate control that you have.
[00:38:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that's why this kind of slow steps being a little bit strategic in the conversations we have with these loved ones, but also getting that personal help that you said before.
[00:38:26] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Because with eating disorder recovery, it is.
It's important to recognize that it is a long journey and it's important to have patience because there will be setbacks along the way.
It's natural to expect that. But it's important to remember that recovery is not a straight line. It go up and down, back, forward.
So it's important to be aware of that, to not get disheartened if, you know, maybe you're not recovering quick enough or, you know, you've. You've had a bit of a slipper. That's okay. That's okay. Just keep moving forward. Don't let it bog you down. Keep trying.
You know, you'll make mistakes along the way, but mistakes help you learn lessons.
So. Yeah, so it's really important that we follow a pace and not try to just rush into it and, you know, set unrealistic expectations.
[00:39:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And whether it is a family member feeling very isolated and alone in that problem with seeing their loved one go through something horrible, or with someone themselves who might think they have an eating disorder or disordered eating problem, we want to really break down that isolation. We really want. Even if, even if someone comes for one or two sessions just to test it out and actually share what's going on in their head, they don't have to do anything else that can be helping them along that kind of change wheel to, maybe I do have a problem, or maybe I need to at least assess what, what is my trigger for help if it, if it escalates.
[00:40:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And I, I just thought of something as well where sometimes making that decision can be quite daunting. To get help. And sometimes people will eventually decide, okay, I'm gonna do it now. And then maybe the health professional that they go to, maybe they don't.
Maybe the person that's attending that appointment doesn't feel heard or understood or maybe feels dismissed or judged. And that can be quite off putting and that could turn them off seeing it ever again. But it's really important to, to, to remember that if you have one negative experience with one professional that paint the whole, you know, system with that type of treatment. So if you don't have a good experience with one person, go to another or go to someone else. Because, because there are so many good, good therapists out there, you just need to find a right match for you.
Yeah. And you know, before you make your appointment with anyone, you know, like calling, you know, your doctor or a psychologist or a counselor or social worker or psychiatrist, whatever it is, it's important to have a chat to them before you book your first appointment. Just check are you happy to work with eating disorders? Because some people might not be and that, you know, then you can find someone else.
[00:42:06] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. I think that's also another good point that I think a lot of clients feel that they have to share everything in a first session or that they have to tell their whole life story. I, you know, say the old we don't have to do Freud here, right. We don't know about mum and dad stuff. That, that's okay. But what would it be like for you to share 5%.
[00:42:26] Speaker A: All right.
[00:42:26] Speaker B: What would it be like for you to share what is a day in your life like in your head? That is a really interesting session that if we understand that and then understand what the problem you face as part of having a yucky voice in your head or having real negative thoughts or whatever it is that makes life a struggle. Let's start there.
[00:42:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
[00:42:53] Speaker B: Okay. And, and I guess that's my main takeaway today is all mental health theory is a journey, but particularly for eating, disordered or disordered eating, it has been ingrained for usually a very, very, very long time. And that to dismantle that, it takes time to trust a professional to take those first steps.
But that getting that help is, is really important. It's, it's, it's based on physical health and mental health.
[00:43:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:43:27] Speaker B: Cool. Well, thank you for your time, Adam. It's been a really nice conversation.
So if you watching this or listening in, want some more information, we do have our website in the description box below.
Reach out to our service or look at some of other videos through YouTube. There's lots of really good information out there. We flagged the Butterfly foundation to get some more help. But please think about your headspace, what's going on, and the kind of support that you might need. But thank you and bye for now.
